Price It to Start a Fight, Two Agents & a Sewer Standoff

House Einstein Podcast #135 Transcript

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Osman: The median real estate associate has been licensed for eight and a half years in Colorado. 19% have under three years of experience while 21% have 20 or more. In short, experience is bimodal. There's a peak of licensees from 1995 to 2006 followed by a valley from '06 to 2011 that corresponds with the financial crisis, and then after that, licenses explode upwards and are currently running at record levels. More than 2,000 in 2025, and 2026 is on a similar pace. And the reason we're talking about that is we just closed the deal with a relatively inexperienced agent, and boy, was it a rollercoaster. And we'll we'll get to that when we talk about sales of the week because it's included in one of our sales of the week for this House Einstein podcast. Yeah. And welcome to the show. This is podcast 135. I'm Osman, and with me is Hamish Crabb. Hello, hello.

Hamish: Yeah, I was going to sarcastically ask, you know, "Osman, what happened in 2006?" But you you beat me to it.

Osman: Right. Yeah. Well- What did happen in 2006, and are we seeing a potential repeat of

Hamish: 2006 now? The doomsayers would have you believe it,

Osman: you know? Yeah. And meanwhile, real estate is hyper-local. So I just saw an article in The Economist talking about how American home buyers have just stopped buying, which I find fascinating, but for sure, those that are in rate sensitive markets and those that are deeply concerned about job security are gonna hold off on purchasing when you see rates as high as they are. Plus so many owners have fantastic mortgages at 3%, 4%, and why would they ever give that up unless they had no choice but to do so?

Hamish: Exactly, so explains the sticky prices. We're kind of doing a little bit of a market update to, to intro this one in a sense. Well, true. Like new agents, uh, follow the market, you know?

Osman: Well, in some ways. Yeah. And also I think, uh, during COVID a lot of them got themselves licensed then felt like, "Hey, now's a good opportunity to jump into this business." And anybody that's been in this business will tell you the failure rate is astoundingly high. Yeah. It is a very challenging business to be in, um, but we're gonna get into the impact of inexperience when we get to our sales of the week. Let me walk you through our docket today. Um, before I jump in there though, let me just mention our mission is to entertain you in this podcast even though the podcast is sponsored by the House Einstein brokerage, whose mission is to help you make a smarter real estate decision. If you're a listener of the podcast, we strongly recommend you don't make any important decisions, financial decisions, real estate decisions, life decisions on anything you hear in this podcast. And if you're a client or a potential client of the brokerage, reach out to us. You will find us at HouseEinstein.com. All right, let's jump in with the docket today. We've got our event horizon segment. That's a relatively new segment where we talk about upcoming things that are happening locally that we think you might actually enjoy, and boy, there's quite a few of them

Osman: with Halloween happening. And then we've got our closing table topic. Our closing table topic is our core topic for the podcast, and in that we're gonna be talking about agents and brokerages here in Colorado. There are 32,000 active agents that are licensed, and boy, the experience spectrum the spectrum of competency is wide. But with some data analysis from our friend AI, we can talk about where most of the experienced agents hang their licenses and where the even more agents hang their licenses than the experienced agents. Uh, we're gonna, we're gonna actually talk about- What's the point behind that, you know? We're, we're actually gonna why are they, why are so many agents at RE/MAX? Why are so many agents at HomeSmart? Um, we're gonna get into the details of that and, and if you're in this industry you probably already know the answer, but a lot of you, a lot of our listeners are not. So we're gonna dive in, and I thought the research was super fascinating. It illuminated some surprises here in Boulder. And our tale from the trenches segment this is where we talk about a actual real estate deal and a situation that arose in it. We're gonna be talking about the exciting topic of sewer lines and whose responsibility are they

Osman: when it comes to a home purchase. Our market update segment is very fascinating. It's, uh, it's very much a tale of two markets. We're gonna talk about data up until today. Like, this analysis is a look back on the last- Fresh, yeah. 90 days. It's super fresh. If you are a follower of my Instagram or other personal socials, you'll see I've already published a bunch of charts on this, but I'm gonna give you kind of a summary of what the latest data is showing, particularly at the high end where the failure rate is frankly astounding. For every high-end listing that's sold, uh, in the last 90 days, the number of failures just is, is kind of eye-popping. Um, and then we're gonna hit sales of the week, or, or rather the lessons from sales of the week. We're gonna talk about 2310 Kenwood Drive, where our client acquired a stunning house this week. Yeah. It closed on Monday. We're gonna talk about 610 Streamside Lane. It's a little pocket off of Arapahoe Avenue on the far west side of Boulder. We're gonna hit 2585 Kohler Drive in Table Mesa, 808 10th Street, which is on the hill. And then 3600 Cloverleaf Drive in the Melody Park neighborhood. Perfect. Shameless self-promotion, we have a client who has had some changes in their

Osman: priorities and family needs, and so we are looking for a very different type of property than what we started at. We're gonna- Boy, yeah. discuss what they're now looking for, uh, which I, and interestingly enough, I think there's actually quite a few opportunities in that price segment and location, unlike what they previously have been looking for. Loads of opportunities, yeah. I think a lot of sellers have probably pulled their listings off the market in this segment, so we might have to be, uh, we might have to sift through the wreckage of expired and withdrawn listings. And hence the promo. If you're an agent and

Hamish: you're listening and you know of a, uh, listing, we'll check out that segment and see if it's a fit.

Osman: Absolutely. Okay, hot takes. Boy, there's a lot of interesting news, uh, that's happened this week. Yeah. Here in Boulder, we're gonna be talking about Alpine-Balsam being a campaign issue, the budget that just passed in the City of Boulder by seven to one and how it remarkably raises, uh, raises salaries and cuts uh, 13 jobs. 24 positions full, but only of 13 of them were actually, there were actually staff in those positions. Okay. 24 positions in total were cut, so we're gonna talk about that. And we're also gonna talk about the new Boulder Medical Center plan. This is the development that's just north of Santo and the- I had to look up where that one was. the Alpine uh, shopping center, the, where Whole Foods is located, um, the Alpine-Balsam Shopping Center. It's called. Oh, boy. I can see the sign in my head right now, and I'm drawing a blank at what we would normally call this. Typically, people- Oh, um-. refer to this plaza as the Ideal- Ideal. Shopping Center because Ideal Market was there for many, many years, and Whole Foods acquired Ideal Market and gradually have rebranded Ideal Market out of existence, but people still refer to that

Osman: location as Ideal. And, um, we're gonna hit on,

Hamish: um- That's an interesting one. Yeah. an alleged

Osman: agent boycott and a lawsuit that's been filed against REX, and supposedly what somebody said to a Wall Street Journal reporter about steering buyers away from listings that have no commissions attached to them. Super interesting little story there, and also a little peek behind maybe the kimono of what happens in real estate. Peek behind the curtain, I should say, not kimono. That sounds a little bit saucy. As,

Hamish: uh, worked for me, but, um, yeah, this REX agency, I've, I've never heard of it,

Osman: so I'll have to- Oh, okay. Oh, that's interesting. yeah, you've got a lot to fill me in on. I don't know if I've got a lot to fill you in on. Well- I know that they're trying desperately to replace the MLS and they're sort of a discount brokerage. So- Okay. Well, good luck then. Right. And we're gonna talk about Sundance and all the rental licenses that have been issued here in Boulder, and, um, the the official revelation of what caused the Aspen Acres fire has been revealed. And the seventh-largest wildfire in, in Colorado too, so. Yep, yep. And then we've got a couple of smaller stories that we'll hit on. Before we hit our carve-outs, Hamish, you're talking about.? Bread.

Hamish: Bread. Baking bread? Baking bread.

Osman: Okay. Yep. Okay. And I'm gonna be talking about a memorial that I attended this past weekend and some of the impact of that. Okay. All right. Fantastic. Well, welcome, and shall we get to it? We should get into it, but I will mention if there's an awkward pause in this podcast, it's because right now we're in the middle of a deal and, uh, time is of the essence and our deadlines are tonight, and boy, we-. had a bit of a curveball thrown at us today, or rather yesterday. Yeah. But, but luckily for the seller and for our clients, the agent on the other side of the deal is a very experienced agent. Yeah. Very professional, and looks for solutions that work for everybody, and brings all of those years of experience to play in trying to find a solution to keep a deal together. I don't know if it's actually gonna happen yet. We're still in play, but clients always come first and we may have to pause the pod entirely and finish the recording a different day or simply just cut it short, uh, so that we can focus in on our client needs today. Yeah. And listeners, you can rest assured this will very likely make a Tales from

Hamish: the Trenches in a later pod, so stay tuned. As always, all of the links and sources and whatnot we discuss is, are going to

Osman: be in the show notes on our website, HouseEinstein.com, barring a few little things, uh, here and there. So

Hamish: the majority of it will be there as long as, uh, along with a transcript and all sorts of other resources as well,

Osman: so. Our first segment, Event Horizon, and, uh, uh, if you just jumped into the pod recently, this is a new segment where we talk about interesting things happening. And we, at the request of one of our listeners or viewers, we've extended our Event Horizon to not just be the coming week. We are pushing this out all the way to November 3rd, which if you happen to listen to this pod after the weekend, you still have time to go and enjoy some of these really cool events happening, and maybe not so cool events. Um- Yeah. Most- Then don't go. most, most of them are fun. Yeah. Uh, and it's, we're, we're on, in the run-up to Halloween. And the weather here in Boulder is fantastic. Fall colors are in full swing, and boy, there are a lot of things happening. So Hamish, why don't you lead us off with pumpkin time? Yeah. Uh, my girlfriend and I, we're gonna be going to Munson Farms for, uh, pumpkin patch picking and, um, oh, what's it? The corn maze. I've never done one, so I wanted to kinda put these on the radar. It's under family events. We're both in their, well into our 20s, but, um, Munson Farms, Anderson Farms, and Rock Creek Farms are nearby local small town kind of feeling farms. Um, I've never been to Anderson. Uh, been to Rock Creek, that's in

Osman: Broomfield right off 287, and Munson Farms, well, I was just there yesterday, but I was like, "Dang, I gotta get my lady with me." Are you doing Terror in the Corn or the corn maze during the daytime? Just during the daytime. Oh. Yeah. Just a fun little visit. Yeah. Bummer. No. Terror in the Corn is sort of a, it's sort of ridiculous, but-. it is a lot of fun. And the first time I went was with a friend, and, uh, he brought two of his female friends. And he specifically told me he brought them because they're quote, "screamers."

Hamish: And so- I remember this story. Yeah.

Osman: And so, and they were. They screamed the. And we laughed the whole time, and they screamed the whole time-. and it was a lot of fun. Cool. I was knowing full well that nothing bad's gonna happen. Yeah. But. Oh, hey, you know the one thing we missed on this, Hamish, is the Boulder High, um, haunted house. I've never heard of it. Oh. Yeah. Okay, maybe you can- What is it? pull this up while I'm I'm chatting a little bit about the next couple of items. So these first ones- Oh, okay. are all family-friendly, right? These, this is what we're initially focused on, pumpkin time at Munson and Anderson or Rock Creek Farm. There's also a magic show happening on October 31st, Halloween, at the dairy, and tickets are very limited. It's costume friendly, and it, it's costume friend- it's costume-friendly and family-friendly. And it ends before the trick or treating really starts, so it's a great way to kick off your, um, Halloween experience. That's 1:00 to 2:00 at The Dairy, and then right after that is the Munchkin Masquerade, and that's a huge tradition. It's a very long-standing tradition on Pearl Street, and it's free. It's downtown from 3:00 to 6:00. So that's bring your littles and enjoy the, the costuming of all the other

Osman: littles. It's really cute, and honestly I would love to cover it from a social media perspective, other than I don't wanna take pictures of people's kids. Yep. Even though they're- That's a tough one. in costume. Yeah. But- And it's, but it's worth experiencing 'cause it's they're so cute, and it's so much fun, and it's good clean fun. And then after that, from 4:30 to 7:00 at the South Boulder Rec Center for $10 a person, and you have to register ahead of time, um, the there is a carnival, Halloween carnival happening at the- Oh, cool. South Boulder Rec Center. So this is like- That's the one in TableMesa? That's the one in TableMesa. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. The one that's the city has threatened to close and then-. tried to tie this blank check funding to um, in the current ballot, uh, that- We can only do one with the other Right. You can only get South Boulder Rec Center having a new boiler if you give us $400 million. Um, okay. Next one, Coffee and Classics. Hamish, what is this? What is- Yeah. Oh, did we wanna hit the Haunted High, uh- Oh, yeah. Oh, you found it. Yeah. Okay, what is the Haunted

Hamish: High? Uh, sounds like Boulder High School has a, um, haunted house, Cirque du Slain- Ooh. which is kind of fun. Uh, Oc- October 23rd, 24th, 30th, uh, as well as October 31st. The times differ, but we will have that linked below. And, um, so it's students putting it on?

Osman: It's students putting it on. Cool. And it's in the high school, and it, it- That's fun. routes you through kind of the catacombs of the high school, the underbelly of the high school. And fun fact, it. So it's put on by the student, like, the drama department- Oh, fun. and the kids that are into acting and, you know, the thespians in the school. Sophie's brother, Sophie Kloor's brother was one of the, I believe, was the originator of the Boulder Haunted House. Like, he was closely tied to its origination, if he's not the actual originator- Oh, that's really cool. many years ago, and of course, has moved on to a career in, in Hollywood. Yeah. But, um, it's a lot of fun. The Kloor legacy. It's a very cool legacy, and it's very. It's, it's just a, it's adorable. You know, the kids are trying to scare you. There's a long line to get in, so get, get there early. Yeah. It's probably not appropriate for- Kids. younger kids. Yeah. I think I would look for middle school and up on this one. That's a safe bet. I probably could have handled it as a fifth or sixth grader, but I don't think most fifth or sixth graders today are ready to be that scared. Oh, I think they've seen worse, but. Maybe. But live- Yeah

Osman: . with real actors. I mean, that whole I mean, student actors. It, it's adorable fun and pretty silly, and you're supporting a great cause, so. There's,

Hamish: if you're looking, uh,

Osman: I don't know if it warrants a mention, but, uh, the Frightmare

Hamish: Complex is in Westminster. Uh, it's off of Old Wadsworth Boulevard if I remember correctly. And that, just speaking of lines, I mean, uh, you're

Osman: two hours in line for 10 minutes of frights, and then you're done. Yeah. And it's just, it starts, it's diminishing returns, you know? At least with the Boulder Haunted House, you're supporting the high school. Right. Right? And it's it's students at the high school, and it's not a big commercial enterprise. And neither is the Munchkin Parade or the South Boulder uh, Rec Center Halloween Carnival put on by the city of Boulder. Yeah. Or, or the magic show at The Dairy. My, my, um, you know, I'm on the board of The Dairy. I'm a huge fan of that institution and would love to encourage people- The magic show would be all. to support. And, you know, tickets aren't gonna be very expensive. What are, uh- You know, they're like 28, 30 bucks to 40 bucks or something like that. Oh, in

Hamish: interest of time, but what are you planning on? What are your Halloween plans? Oh, my Halloween plans?

Osman: I am not gonna be here. Oh. I am gonna be in, um- Should know this. Phoenix. Yeah, you have my calendar. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna be in Phoenix at the Javelina Jundred. Okay. And volunteering at the Javelina Jundred, and the race is on Halloween, and so there will be, everyone will be in costume. And I, I'm going mostly to be, um, I mean, I love volunteering at these types of events, but really I'm, I'm going to spend some time with our, one of our good family friends and, uh, connect with him 'cause he, he knows about the race. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, so that's that's why I'm going, and I'll be working remotely- Awesome. um, in the run-up to that. So. Yeah. Okay. Great. Let's move on to Coffee and Classics. Yeah. This one, I, when I saw it come up, I was like, "Man, we just talked about this," and we did. Um, but it's the last Sunday of each month, I believe. Uh, the, the website says that this is

Hamish: the last one that it, I mean, it's the last date that it mentions. So October 25th, this coming Sunday at 8:00 AM to 10:00 PM, it's, uh, Coffee and Classics. It's down there on Pearl and 8th. Um, oh, like a classic car event. Uh, I think it's mostly slanted European. The reason I'm mentioning it is I'm going. Your notes say only

Osman: 25-year-old European vehicles are allowed inside. That's correct. If I bring a 25-year-old Japanese vehicle, I'm not gonna be let in?

Hamish: I don't know about make, but this is,

Osman: uh, that's ripped straight from the website. Wow. Okay. So

Hamish: I don't- All right. I don't know. You know, maybe, like, imagine your car looks too new, but it is a '95 or something like that. I wondered. But, um, no, streets will be closed to traffic. Uh, you know, it's a spectator type of event. And I really love morning automotive events far more than, like, a nighttime meet or anything like that because everybody's a little sleepy, they've got their coffee, and it's like a crisp morning. The, the energy's

Osman: just far more relaxed and I think more enthusiast than, than show-off. So I'll be there. Uh, I've already filled in my little pamphlet, leaflet thing that they want you to put on your dash in case you're not by your car, and, um, yeah. Swing by if you're around. What time does it start?

Hamish: Uh, it's 8:00 to 10:00. Okay, great.

Osman: Yeah. All right. The next one is Two Nights at The Dairy. Comedy Fempire, and, um, B- Boulder Ballet's Dancer's Choice. So there's two events here. Comedy Fempire is Saturday, October 24th at 7:00, and Boulder Ballet's Dancer's Choice is October 24th and 25th. Um, tickets run $11.50 to $57.50. Wow. So very specific. 12 bucks to 58 bucks. Relatively cheap for fantastic entertainment. And Dancer's Choice is literally the ballet dancers have run the entire program, like, they're the ones that designed the program versus the choreographer. So I think that could be a lot of fun. Yeah. And again, I'm a huge supporter of events at The Dairy. So those are two nights to go check out.

Hamish: Are they. Does The Dairy have two ven-

Osman: two stages? Multiple. We have yeah, multiple theaters. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Yeah. Multiple.

Hamish: 'Cause I was like, there's two. Yeah, same night. That's really cool.

Osman: Yeah. Pearl Street Stampede, CU versus Kansas State. So, um-. first there's the Stampede, and that's Friday, October 30th at 7:00 PM. Steve Tebow's gonna roll out the firetruck, and there's a big marching band, quite the scene called the Stampede downtown. And then shortly after that is kickoff. So- Awesome. CU's playing Kansas State. As we mentioned before, you might be able to get tickets walking along on Folsom. It's my little pro tip. Yep. Um, it doesn't hurt. But, uh, don't forget that the game traffic is gonna overlap with the Munchkin Masquerade, and so you Oh, insane. Oh, wait a minute. Do we have the times right? Hold on a second. Kickoff is Saturday at noon, so sorry. Sorry. Okay. I, I confused this. The following day. The football game is Saturday at noon, and the timing of the football game is, is gonna overlap with the Munchkin Masquerade. So keep that in mind if you're trying to get around Boulder. It gets a little bit, um- Gonna be hairy. Yeah, a little bit challenging. Yeah. You know, your Halloween weekend, you've got, uh, football games and downtown events, and, uh, getting around Boulder with all those humans in our city and limited parking can be a challenge. I would strongly encourage you to

Osman: consider taking the bus system. It makes life a lot easier- Oh my gosh, yeah. and you don't have to worry about parking. Just find a parking spot outside of the core zone and, and hop on the bus. Yeah.

Hamish: Great recommendation. It's the perfect setup for, like, a horror movie or something. You know, the night's alive. You've got football games and events and all sorts of stuff, the chaos.

Osman: I'm in Halloween mode- You are in Halloween mode. and thinking, yeah. That's kind of dark, Hamish, that you think it's a horror movie that's about to unfold- It's a great setup, you know. in the city of Boulder. You've got, like, the joy and all the activity. Anyhow. All right, let's hit our live music options that are coming up. Yeah. Melvin Seals and the Jerry Garcia Band are performing for two nights at the Boulder Theater, October 30th and 31st. Showtimes are confusing. They might be at 7:00 or 8:30, so you may wanna double-check that. But Jerry Garcia Band over Halloween weekend, yeah, that's about as Boulder as it gets.

Hamish: They've got that ice cream, right? Like, the Cherry Garcia ice cream? Cherry Garcia, sorry. You're talking

Osman: about Ben & Jerry's ice cream? Yeah, the Cherry Garcia. This is the Jerry Garcia Band. Yep. Completely got that mixed up. All right. Okay, great. It's a good joke if anybody grabbed it, but. It's, I, I didn't. Okay. I missed, I missed the all right. I missed the joke. The Boulder Symphony's Halloween Spooktacular is Saturday, October 31st, Halloween night, or Halloween afternoon, 2:00 to 3:00 PM. Uh, only five bucks for kids. Wow. Yeah. I don't imagine that that's that spooky. And then Motown's Haunted Prom, also Halloween night. Boy, this is what happens when Halloween's on a Saturday. Oh, yeah. So the Roots Music Project- Boy. which is a nonprofit that supports up-and-coming musicians here in Boulder. I'm a huge fan of this. It's out in kind of the industrial zone off of, off Pearl Parkway, 4747 Pearl. It's a seven-piece Motown band, and the band is playing the nonprofit's costumed dance party. It sells out every year, and it will, will. If I was here, that might be my top pick. Oh, okay. Other than the next one, which is, would be a toss-up. Gold Hill Inn is having its Halloween- Oh, come on. dance party at, uh, at 8:00 PM. Tickets are 20 bucks in advance. Almost certainly is gonna sell out, so when you hear this, go buy your tickets. Make your decision. Like,

Osman: ASAP. either go to the Motown Haunted Prom or go to the, go to the Gold Hill Inn-. Halloween dance party. Both are gonna be a lot of fun. If you're into dance, right? Like, this is something my wife is really into. If you're not really a dancer, then hey, there's other options that we've already talked about. Yep. Um, and then here's our, one of our last ones that I think is super interesting. Yeah. And BMOCA, the Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art, is hosting a kickoff, a reception for its Día de los Muertos, um, exhibits on Sunday, November 1st, 2:00 to 5:00 PM, with dance and music, and, uh, sounds super interesting, so that'll be at BMOCA. Yeah, that'll be great. And then our last item. Uh, well, I guess there's a few other little we need to, like, follow up- Worth mentioning. worth mentions- You know? Yeah. from previous, from our previous podcast. But this one is so odd that I almost didn't include it other than I grew up as a Police fan, the the band. Oh, yeah. Right? The, the, the band. Yeah. And Stuart Copeland is the drummer for The Police, and I guess he's doing some sort of spoken story tour. In Boulder? And it's hitting the Boulder Theater on November 3rd, which is also election night.

Osman: So if you want to avoid the election returns and wanna just have a good time, you can go listen to The Police's drummer tell stories at the Boulder Theater instead. Actually, what a nice way to just ignore it for a night. Ignore it for the night. Yeah. I, although I imagine there will be people, you know- Yeah, yeah. furiously looking at their phones to see what

Hamish: the election returns are. His backdrop is the, the results live

Osman: update, you know? Oh, man. It's like- That would be horrible. Yeah. That would be horrible. I don't, honestly, I don't know what sort of stories he's gonna be telling. I think it's super interesting. Yeah. Um, I will be back, so maybe, maybe we will- That'd be fun. uh, go check that out.

Hamish: You can show him your bike. My,

Osman: my Police bike? Yeah. Are you trying to get me into trouble- No. on the podcast? You're a fan of The Police. I'm a fan of the band, man. Yeah. That's why it says "Police" on my bicycle. Exactly. Okay, great. Yeah. Um, you're outing me for potentially-

Hamish: For being a fan of a band? Uh, uh, yeah, okay.

Osman: All right. Uh, I'm definitely not impersonating a police officer, although I've been told repeatedly- Really? there is one cop who I look a lot like. Oh. That's- And sometimes people confuse us. Maybe that's a compliment. Maybe that's not. maybe. Yeah. I don't, I don't know, maybe. You'd have to see him up close. He's affectionately called Officer Buzzkill. Ooh, well, to, for an officer to have a nickname, they've gotta be fairly decent. Or OBK. Oh, that's. And you're OP, so that's close too. Right. There you go. Yeah. There you go. Okay. Reminders? All right, so a few reminders from last week's event horizon. Uh, we told you to check out the LabVenture Challenge. Well, it's too late. It's sold out. Okay. So you're not gonna be able to get to that, but there is a wait list. And apparently October 22nd's version still has some free tickets, so- Nice. um, get on it if you didn't already. Actually, it's gonna be too late by the time you hear this podcast because it will be- Oh yeah, the 23rd. you'll have missed it. Yeah. So that'll be too late. Um, Friday, October 23rd, the Poltergeist Drive-In. Did you do last weekend's? You were talking about it. Mm- I'm doing this weekend's. You're going to the

Osman: Poltergeist. Yeah, this is the one I'm going to, and I'll see you there. Well, you won't see me there. No,

Hamish: I'll see the, the broad Boulderites that are listening. Right. Absolutely. Yeah.

Osman: October 26th is the last recommended day to mail your ballot. You can still drop it off all the way till, I think, uh, the- The day of, right? The day. I, mm, careful. I think the last day, maybe the day before. I'd, I'd not- Last thing we wanna do is make a hard recommendation on that. Right. I'm not telling you. Yeah. But you can still, there are a few more days after that to drop it off in person. Um, some people I know actually recommend the drop it off in person approach for more security that your ballot has been received, but you do get a text message here in Boulder when- Yeah, and an email. I do, yeah. You get the email, too. So when you drop off your, your ballot, you get notification that it's been counted. I, I do in person

Hamish: just because it's right there, so it's kinda that nice like final step

Osman: to- And you get your sticker. the vote.

Hamish: Oh, I get a, they, it comes in the mail with the

Osman: ballot. Oh. Yeah. Really?

Hamish: That's weird. It's the way you vote there.

Osman: The Boulder Phils, uh, Planet Bluegrass show has been moved to November 4th, and that's about what we got. Yeah. We talked about that, I think, last week.

Hamish: Yeah. Well, bluegrass. We tried to make it to the Gold Hill Inn, uh, the other night, uh, after we discussed it on this segment, and I was not prepared for the lines. None of us were. There were like eight of us. I think you told us. I told you to get there at

Osman: 4:45. Yeah, literally. Before, and you can get food there, and you will be inside, and you will, and you will every, every, yeah, if you get there at 7:00 or 8:00 at night- You're done. forget it. Yeah. You're gonna be outside. Drink

Hamish: outside of the bar and just peer through the window.

Osman: Right. Like, "Hello." You know? Like, that's all you can do. Well, at least they're serving drinks outside. Yeah. Thank God. But. Yeah, no, I, 100%, if you wanna be inside, you have to get there early. Well, that's just, you know, it's a sign of your experience and my inexperience. Well, now you know. Speaking of experience. Are you

Hamish: gonna go back? Uh, I will try at some point.

Osman: Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. My Halloween's

Hamish: booked out. We're gonna throw a little, um, home party, and, uh, then Halloween night we're giving out the kid, giving out candy to the kids and, um, taking tallies, seeing how many there are or if trunk or treats are slowly eroding neighborhood Halloweens. It's serious stuff. Yeah.

Osman: Yeah. Sounds great. Okay. This podcast is sponsored by House Einstein. We serve buyers and sellers in Colorado, focusing on Boulder, Denver, and several mountain resort towns, including Breckenridge and Winter Park. Our mission is simple: help you make a smarter real estate decision. You can learn more at HouseEinstein.com or on our YouTube channel where you'll find videos on neighborhoods, specific listings, and much, much more. Okay, let's move on. Let's talk about our closing table topic. Yeah. And this data analysis is possible because you can download the entire DORA database of licensed agents, which is why we get advertisements all the time. People try to message us about trying to switch brokerages and so forth. And I thought it would be interesting to kinda dive into this, both from a strategic perspective for our brokerage to understand our positioning, and also to get a landscape of what's going on with licensees here in the state of Colorado. Turns out there are 32,000 individuals, humans with licenses here in the state. 32,317 if you want the actual number. Yeah. And the median years licensed, 8.5. 21% of agents have been licensed for more than 20 years, and about 20%, 19% have been

Osman: licensed under three years. So one in five have been licensed for less than three years. One in five either way, right? One in five roughly have been licensed for more than 20 years. Yeah. 17% switched brokerages in the last 12 months, and the median years at the current firm is just 2.8 years. All right. Interesting. Okay. So- One in five are changing firms, too. Just, I mean, a little less, but- I mean, the interesting thing from a brokerage perspective is you have these veterans with so much experience, and these veterans, as they start to exit the industry, are likely gonna look for opportunities to sell their book of business or partner with younger agents. And there's kind of this gap that happened, uh, during the global financial crisis where a lot of people got out of the business. Yeah. And those are the people that would take on the business opportunities of these veterans. So it's gonna be interesting to see how the younger agents try to absorb the business of the older agents. And and there could be quite the opportunity- Dinosaur isn't the word, but, you know. Well, we know for a fact that 70% of the business here in Boulder is typically done by 30% of the agents. I've done that analysis. And that's the huge distinction, right?

Osman: I, I've done that analysis myself by hand. Yeah. Did not ask Claude or AI to do it. I did that by hand multiple times just to see who's number one and get a better sense of their marketing strategies, better understand their business practices, and I was really surprised. It does turn over every few years who's number one, but, um, yeah. So, uh, so let's talk about- I mean, yeah. let's talk about the, the actual brokerages, right? And as a business practice, we don't negatively diminish our colleagues as individuals, right? Right. Like, we don't say bad things about people specifically. Critique by category. We criticize by category. Yeah. We praise by name at House Einstein, and also because, hey, there's, there's some rules there about dishing about your colleagues uh, or competitors in a public forum. The Real Estate Commission looks down on it. Um, the National Association has ethical rules about that, so we don't really, even if they do it's unethical to, to say specific things about specific individuals. But the brokerages themselves, I think it's super fascinating. Fair game. No. The data that popped out of here and, um and so I asked it to look at specifically, um,

Osman: Boulder. Let me make sure I have the. Oh, no, no. This is, there are there are some specifics for Boulder, but this is across the board. Right. So across the board, it turns out RE/MAX had the largest number of veterans with 41% of agents that have 20 years or more- That's 895 in raw numbers. they have their licenses at RE/MAX, and then HomeSmart was a close second place. And- Surprising. with 27% of veterans have their license at HomeSmart. So for those that don't know, RE/MAX got its start by offering a commission-free

Hamish: model, like no splits. Plus office fee, right, or something?

Osman: They basically said, "We'll do splits instead of commissions." And at that time, brokerages were charging 50% for like you had no monthly fees. You just had a s- 50% split. Okay. There might have been things like caps in place, but, or there was a waterfall, but this was a an entirely new model and they had trouble getting adoption initially, but then they really took off and made Dave and Gail billionaires. But over time, that desk fee model has eroded. Right. So if you were to join RE/MAX today, they almost certainly have a franchise- size fee that, and, and then there's a fee that goes to Dave and Gail, and then there's a desk fee- A D and G fee. Right, like to RE/MAX International, and I don't know exactly what the structure is, 'cause I haven't looked at it in about 20 years. Yeah. But I know that the, the model of, "Hey, it's just a desk fee," largely went the way of the dodo. But the people that got in early with RE/MAX still have that structure. Right. And so they paid de minimis monthly fees, and they're not going anywhere when they're paying 200 bucks a month or 300 bucks a month just to hang their license with RE/MAX. So I. And in fact, I asked one of our colleagues, I won't

Osman: mention his name, why he's still with RE/MAX, and he point-blank, and he's in his 60s, was like, "It's the best deal for me ever. All these young agents don't get that deal. But as one of the first whatever number of agents- Founder type of deal, yeah. who joined RE/MAX, I have this killer deal. I would never give it up." Jeez. "It's absurd." And so, so when you see, um, veterans that have been with a RE/MAX for that length of time, or another legacy brand like Coldwell, um, it often is because they have a structure that is very different than new agents that join the business. And my sense of this, having, having looked at this industry with really keen eyes back when I first got licensed, the reason I got licensed I was super interested in how this business works. My impression was that a lot of these big box brokerages, they are happy to have anybody that fogs a mirror, has a license and they expect that you're gonna fail after about three years. Yeah. Like, they have some- They see the stats, you know. support. They have some mentorship models, but you do splits for those. You do fee sharing commission split sharing, and then after you've sold to most of your friends and family,

Osman: after about three years you'll be out of the business because you realize it's really hard work, and you don't actually, most agents don't actually make that much money. Yeah. The expenses are catching up with you. But the next one, HomeSmart, I think is actually the exact same reason agents don't leave RE/MAX that have been there for over 20 years. I

Hamish: think so too.

Osman: Yeah. And it, to me, well, HomeSmart to me typically is discount broker. It's a discount broker. Right. And it's a, it's a discount broker with, with minimal splits for the agent.

Hamish: Minimal in general.

Osman: Right. I mean, also also, I, it. I'm surprised that they have all that many experienced agents, but my sense is it's the splits that are driving both RE/MAX, HomeSmart, and Brokers Guild, the top three. Yep. And the splits are low, or the overall cost of having your license with those brokerages are low. Brokers Guild is, like, is largely, I think, a referral network. Yeah, I was gonna- So it's like- I just learned that when we talked about this. Did you look them up? Uh, no, I haven't yet. Okay. Yeah. I'm not an expert in, in Brokers Guild. We don't see a lot of Brokers Guild here in Boulder, but when I looked them up, I was surprised how many licensees they have, and yet they have no brand presence as far as listings go. Yeah. And I think this is for people that do one or two deals as referrals every year. They, they send their friends and family to other agents and collect a fee. They need to have their license somewhere. Somewhere easy to park it, right? That doesn't, isn't very demanding, has very minimal fees, and they can just do referrals keep their license active, and collect a commission. So I think that's what Brokers Guild is. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah. Um, leave a comment. I, I'm not an expert in Brokers Guild by any

Osman: means. Yeah. But I have done deals repeatedly with HomeSmart agents, and often they are unavailable. Like they're not really full-time agents. So RE/MAX- At least the ones we've dealt with, right? At least the ones we've dealt with. Yeah. RE/MAX, so I'm talking about my personal experience here, but RE/MAX, totally different story. The experienced agents are usually pretty good. They, they usually have solid business practices.

Hamish: So, yeah, I mean, it's almost like a camouflage. Like, uh, with short of looking up that specific agent's license and seeing how long they've been experienced, if you were to look at somebody that's working with RE/MAX, 40%, you know, could be 20 years plus experience.

Osman: 60% doesn't have 20 years of experience. Yeah. Good point. Right.

Hamish: Or whatever the- Well, and you know what the huge caveat is, right? You could have your license active for 20 years, you could still have only done one deal.

Osman: True. Yeah. That's another. So experience is not necessarily a proxy for skill. It's a proxy for longevity in the industry. Yeah. Which might mean that your partner- Governance. is the actual income, and you do one or two deals a year part-time. And that's about all you do. And there's a lot of part-time agents in this business, and we're gonna get to that. Yeah. But let me, let me hit on a couple of others. I was really surprised, Compass, only 20% of Compass' agents have 20 years in the industry. Yeah. Given how much they market and how many. Like, they're everywhere, um, but only one- And, and,

Hamish: you know, personally getting recruited, you know?

Osman: But only one in. Oh, yeah, repeatedly. Yeah. But only one in five of their agents has 20 years or more experience.

Hamish: Yeah. It's, uh, an exclusive agency. What can I say?

Osman: And Your Castle came in at the lowest. So these are brokerages with at least 200 associates, by the way. Okay. So I wanna make that clear. Yep, that's right. 'Cause there's lots of brokerages that are, are smaller than this, including our own, that were not counted. But Your Castle, only 11% of the agents at that company have more than 20 years of experience. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so now let's talk about the median years licensed by brand, and again, just focusing on the 200 plus associate brokerages. And this one also surprised me. So there's a brokerage in Denver called Kentwood. And Vend deals with Kentwood. Yeah. I didn't really know much about them because they don't have much of a presence here in Boulder at all. They're quiet, it seems. But their median experience is 17.8 years. It blows away everybody else, including RE/MAX, where the median is 13.5 years. That's, yeah, 200 plus associates. The Group and Sotheby's, Silversmith & Frampton, these are the ones rounding it out, and then you're down to Brokers Guild and Madison & Company. Well, then, that's Sotheby's too, right? I mean, Sotheby's has the benefit

Hamish: of, uh- I mean, it's international

Osman: . I mean, no, this is just- Well, RE/MAX too. this is just Colorado. Right, but brand presence, I guess. It has- Sorry, carry on. I mean, it has an international brand presence. And they do a fantastic job of making sure you don't forget that. Yeah. Even though the auction house has nothing to do with residential real estate brokerage it was a really smart branding partnership. I don't know how the brand deal worked out, I wasn't part of that, but for sure, the, it's all about the brand. It's not about necessarily business practices and- And clearly they're keeping their agents reasonably happy 'cause the median agent has 12.8 years of experience at Sotheby's, which is, which is better, right, than, say, Mile Hi, Mile Hi Modern, and Compass, which the median agent at both of those brokerages have only nine years of experience. Yeah. That's cool. Mile Hi Modern has more than 200 associates? Yep. No way. No, they're pretty big. Wow. For sure, yeah. They, they are, as far as our regional players go, they're pretty big. Yeah, that's- They have- I-. 247 agents. Okay.

Hamish: Yeah. Oh, are you, are we now in the

Osman: second brands with- We're under all brands with at least 75 associates. Yeah. HomeSmart has 2,468, the most by far of, of licensees in Colorado, followed by Keller Williams, followed by RE/MAX. And, uh, and eXp is, is our fourth largest brokerage in Colorado, where the median experience is 5.7 years and only 7% of the agents at eXp have more than 20 years. Yeah. So, you know, what's interesting about eXp is they have very similar split structure than we, as we have here at House Einstein. Uh, yeah. I've talked, I've been heavily recruited by people trying to, to Ponzi me into eXp. Like, if you recruit me, you get a little piece of every deal I do forever, so for, for a while there was an agent that just wouldn't stop and eventually I had to tell her, "There's zero chance-. I'm going to eXp." Yeah. But, uh, you know- Not happening. I, I do wanna hear their pitch, right? And some of them pitch really strong back office support. Some of them pitch marketing. Some of them are, it's all about the splits and they want you to know how cheap it is to work there, and, uh, that's the HomeSmart model. Yeah. Um, so I think the, as a consumer, you should reflect carefully or, or think about why the agent you're you're considering hiring-

Osman: has their license with a particular brokerage. And ask them. And well for sure ask them, but also do your own homework. And I will tell you, if they're new in the industry, it, it lends credibility to have your license. And I, by new I mean, like, under five years of experience. Yeah. It will help your credibility to have your license at a brokerage that is recognized by other, by widely recognized like Sotheby's, right? People will immediately associate luxury auctions, super high-end deals with that name. Even though it has nothing to do with actually how these listings are perceived or how the competency of the agent. There's a huge disconnect, but you can potentially get a little of that shine rubbed off on you by having your license at a brokerage with a brand name like that. Berkshire Hathaway is another one, right? Of course. What does Warren Buffett have to do with Berkshire Hathaway? Uh, it's a brand deal. Yeah.

Hamish: I mean, uh, yeah, I'm seeing Century 21. I almost forgot about them. Redfin's there. apparently only 144 associates.

Osman: That's insane. Yeah.

Hamish: Yeah. And not growing nearly as much as I, uh, would've anticipated. But

Osman: Orchard made the 75 cutoff, and- Oh, it did? uh, the, the agent that we just closed the deal with that wasn't very experienced. And also, um, Serhant, which is a new player and is using his, uh, celebrity to build a brokerage, which I think is actually brilliant given how widely known

Hamish: Serhant is. 100% have joined in the last 12 months.

Osman: Of course, 'cause that's 100% that brokerage didn't exist in Colorado prior to 12 months. Oh, actually, that's a good one to filter on. We can see where the, uh, you know, what's, what's enticing for agents maybe. Oh, for sure. And the median experience there is seven and a half years, so they're attracting, you know, agents that are looking for a long-term home and have probably have already been licensed somewhere else for a while 'cause they had seven and a half years of experience and they, they went for the Serhant. Um, you know what I don't see is, uh, oh no, I see The Agency. The Agency is in here. They're a relatively new player in Colorado. The median experience is 6.6 years. Less than Orchard. And only 15% of agents at the brokerage have more than 20 years. Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, we did, if we were to grab this weekly, we could see where- Where people are moving. agents are moving. Yeah. And you can grab it weekly, which is interesting. I mean, it takes a little bit of time for the data to change. Um- Oh, I bet. And for the consumer, this is, I think, it, the, again, that this is all, uh, interesting information, but it's not necessarily true that an inexperienced agent's a bad agent.

Osman: Right. And it's not necessarily true an agent with 20 plus years is a great agent. We just had this conversation with a potential seller yesterday who's selling a home in Niwot, and we talked about who was- That's right. who was, um- Double ending that deal. well, so when they acquired-. the home, I won't mention this agent's name but this is an agent that I've done deals with, and honestly, he doesn't care anymore. He is, he, he's got to, he's gotta be in his 80s. That's crazy. And his name is well-known but his attitude is, "I don't care. I'm not trying to make this deal happen at all, so don't bug me with any negotiations. I'm, it's either this way or it's not happening." And then he proceeded to trim his fingernails at the closing table. I remember, yeah. That's this agent. Oh my God. And when she, when I figured out who it was, and she and the, and the client or prospective client was excited 'cause she felt like, hey, she got a good deal, um, because she went directly to the listing agent and she thought she knew the commissions that-

Hamish: Yeah. he paid. But it's not disclosed to the buyer. It's not disclosed to the buyer. Yeah.

Osman: It's not on the buyer's settlement statements. The agents know because they get copies of both settlement statements, but I can assure you this agent never gave her- No, of course not. his settlement statement. Why would he? Yeah. And so, so what's super interesting is that she, she felt confident that she had gotten a deal, but I know this agent, and I can tell you after having listed a home for well over a year, he wasn't discounting anything. Oh, probably. Yeah. Zero percent probability he was gonna, like, discount his commission and cut his income. Yeah. And so, it, it and the, and the- Out of the goodness of his heart, like. and the negotiated discount was pretty typical. Yeah. It wasn't anything special. So he double ended. Which meant he either, like we, when we double end, we discount it a little bit, right? We got a framework, yeah. Like, we, we we have a framework for double ending, and there's a reason that our commissions are higher than they would be if there was if it was two agents involved. However, it's not like we collect- It's not as two plus two. We don't collect 6%. Yeah. Um, we discount it pretty significantly, and I'm happy to talk about commissions specifically with

Osman: anybody that wants to pick up the phone and call if you're a prospective client, but we don't really go into a lot of detail on the actual numbers, um, because they can sometimes vary. It really depends on the circumstances. Speaking of these numbers, it's- And the services we provide. Yes. No,

Hamish: good point, though, the value proposition of our brokerage, too. Um, speaking of these numbers, I may be able to get them on us, um, so, you know, minus the things we

Osman: wanna keep, uh,

Hamish: private, so it's possible this will be linked. If

Osman: not, um, uh,

Hamish: we know you guys have great imaginations.

Osman: Uh, you're listening to the Haus Einstein podcast. I mean, you could turn this cloud report into an actual PDF and then, um- And I think can just remove the pages, yeah. Yeah, just have it and remove the, the context for why we're digging into this. And I, I guess we should mention the context a little bit, and that is Haus Einstein zigs while everybody else is zagging. The branding for our brokerage is built around helping clients make smart real estate decisions. I'm gonna say it again, smart real estate decisions. And how do you do that? You do that by advising based on the actual facts on the ground. It means data analysis. It means experience. It means fiduciary responsibility and principles and values that are in alignment with our clients' best interests. Yep. We wanna help our clients find the best house they can and pay the least amount that they can to get the house, to be honest, when we're representing them. And still get the house. And do their due diligence right? 'Cause. And, and the price they pay, getting the right house should be the top priority. Paying fair value is more likely than getting a great deal. Like, the idea that you're gonna find an amazing house and get a great deal is fictional.

Osman: Yep. It's very unlikely 'cause if it's an amazing house and it's priced right, you are almost certainly gonna have more than one person interested in this house until you get to the really high end of the market, and we're gonna talk about that later. And on the sell side, we're trying to help our client maximize their sale price, minimize their risk minimize the hassle factor, and get the closing. And it's all about advice and our clients making the call, and that's. So we take on a fiduciary responsibility and an advisory role, not a salesy role, and that, that market model, that business model is actually somewhat like swimming upstream when you've got the Sotheby's of the world that are trying to, and, and- Like, look how pretty this house is, and yeah. and the Berkshire Hathaways of the world that are trying to get brand association from the value of a brand, which- Yeah

Hamish: . look, it, it- Or sell a lifestyle or, you know.

Osman: Well, no, these, these brands have, these luxury brands have a life of their own. They have, they. There is tremendous value to luxury branding. Um, if we weren't doing it this way, we, I probably would be at a Sotheby's or something equivalent, probably not Berkshire Hathaway. I think it's too transparent. Yeah. But Sotheby's is, would, I would probably consider Sotheby's. Compass, I don't know. I feel like- Agency? Oh, the, the agency? Yeah, the agency. I, I, I'm not trying to be, like, a Hollywood TV show person. Dawn Sunset type of deal, yeah. Right? That's like, that's like- That's kinda the vibe there, yeah. That's the vibe, and it's also the same thing with Serhant. Like, this is celebrity real estate. I don't think that that helps our clients. Yeah. So I think Sotheby's is probably the closest. Compass maybe. They keep approaching them, me personally, but I, I honestly don't think that they add that much value. Yeah. Um, they're trying, but I, I. Anyway, we're not selling out at Haus Einstein. We're growing as a brokerage, but really the people that I think are the best fit for our brokerage align with those principles and values. Yeah. Um, and we are looking to add a few agents, but we operate much more

Osman: like a law firm rather than a big box brokerage where we're, we're. It, it's a it's a totally different model.

Hamish: So that's the reason we're- If you are interested, you know, contact.

Osman: Yeah, contact us if this, if this excites you. But be prepared to hear no, because, uh, honestly, we get approached two or three times a year without even marketing this, and typically the answer is it's not a good fit. And we're such a small shop that it has, there has to be alignment with the team. And that, that's that's a little tricky, and sometimes it just doesn't feel like a good fit, and so that is something we have to have a conversation about. Like making plans on a group chat. It's very difficult. Right. Yeah. Well, we're not, we're not gonna do it the same way we've done it recently where it's more group think. Um, but we do have to get the feedback of agents that are gonna work closely with with the new person who's joining. And typically we're looking for people that have at least seven years of experience and have had. They know what they value at a brokerage and now they're looking to find a long-term home.

Hamish: Yep. And a home we could be.

Osman: Anyhow. All right. That's our closing table topic. Yeah. Let's move on and talk about our tale from the trench. Yeah. This one I tried to make it a, a fun title, and I just ended up with

Hamish: sewer responsibility. Yeah. And I meant, like, whose responsibility. No, it just doesn't work.

Osman: It doesn't work. Yeah. I didn't know why you, like, apostrophized sewers. It doesn't- Yeah. Here, so here's the story. Okay? Um, when we represent sellers, we strongly encourage them to prepare a home properly for sale, and part of that is having the sewer line cleaned out. Yep. They don't necessarily need to scope it, but they should have it rootered, particularly if it's a home in South Boulder that was built from the 1950s to the 1980s. There's a really good chance that you've got root intrusion 'cause most of these homes were built with cast iron pipe inside the house and clay outside the house in sections, and those sections are not perfectly watertight, so roots find their way in. And it doesn't mean the sewer line's bad. It means that you might have to have an annual cleaning. But if they can't even get a camera in there because it's full of roots- Yeah, the buyers or whoever's inspecting. you're gonna scare the heck out of your buyer, and why, why do that? Why jeopardize the deal when you can properly prepare your home? Yeah. And there's a bunch of other things that we recommend sellers do. We're not going into the whole, the whole line of- But boy is this top of mind, right? Okay. Okay, this is top of mind- So-. because we're in play

Osman: with a deal, and when we, after we went under contract- Oh, man. we asked the listing agent if they could please request the seller to have the sewer line cleaned, because if they don't, what happens is in, in about 50 to s- I would say even 80% of the time, they can't get the camera through. Yep. Or even if they can get the camera through- I feel like they don't even try when they see, like, they'll see a root, a curtain of roots and they're like, "Mm." Yeah. They then, they then have to write in their report that, "Have the line cleaned and we'll rescope it," or, "Have a sewer line specialist come look at it." Um, a lot of these inspection companies I think are, are in cover their butt mode, CYA mode, and not- Oh my gosh, yeah. necessarily trying to give you the best inspection. So, um, we requested the seller to clean out the sewer line, and- The listing agent was kind of perturbed by it, was was agitated and told me, "Why didn't you write that into the contract if you expected the seller to do these things?" And this is normal maintenance, right? So it's not just it's one of these things that if you own a home of this vintage, you probably should be doing every year or every other year, and if you haven't done it in 12 months, it's a

Osman: request. It's also a good idea to just have done that to begin with, along with servicing your HVAC along with getting up on your roof and repairing any roofing issues that are up there so it's in good shape for the inspection. And- Like, most agents will run around dumping mulch all over the outside of the house as part of their recommendations, which does what? It hides negative slope. Yeah. It's problematic to really figure out what the slope is. It does look nice. It does look pretty. They have no problem with that advice. Right. But they this agent had a big problem with us asking for the seller to clean up a sewer line. And- And so then we had this discussion, which I think was friendly. I think so. Well, you weren't on the phone call. Where we are now, though. Or, yeah, okay, good point. Well, I don't wanna talk about where we are. I'm just saw your email exchange. I don't wanna talk about where we are now. Yeah. But in, in the conversation with him, I asked him, "Is this something that you have your buyers do when they inspect a home? You have the the you have the sewer line cleaned out" And he said, "Yes." He said, prior to scheduling the inspection, they schedule a rooter to clean the

Osman: line and the buyer pays, not the seller. And I found that really strange. Yeah. He was very insistent. I'm not saying he was, he was dishonest about it. I, I just found that we have s- So strange. we have similar years of experience, and we have a completely different business practice. And I take him at his word that that's what he does. So, um, we think it's the seller's responsibility to present a house ready for inspection. Right. And he thinks it's the buyer's responsibility to do what it takes to get a proper inspection. And so it's one of these things where I think it's a. I'm curious what the public thinks. Yeah. And so- Let us know. if you're gonna make a little segment from this, Hamish I think you should- That's a great one. include a poll. Is it the buyer's responsibility to clean the sewer line prior to paying for their inspection, or is it the seller's responsibility to have the line cleaned so the home is already prepared for inspection? And we're not talking about a big number, right? We're talking about maybe 200 bucks for a quality rooter. There are sketchy rooters. Please do not go to the $99 people, right? They do not do a good job.

Hamish: Unless you really wanna have some inspection

Osman: concessions. They do not do a good job. Yeah. So, and, and honestly, you can also skip the hiring the home inspector to do the sewer line scope. Most of them are subcontracting to specialists that do sewer line scopes. Yeah. And the, the specialist is probably a better choice than the primary home inspector, the one that all they do is sewer line scopes. And CYA, yeah. But only if they don't also repair sewer lines.

Hamish: That's true. Then they're incentivized that any little

Osman: deviation or problem or- They're there, that's what the $99 rooter people do is they really are there to sell you a sewer line repair that you may or may not need. And don't, I mean, I- I mean. Ugh. and I'm saying that generically, by the way. Definitely some life with that. Yeah. Like, that's my personal experience with these companies, that having dealt with the cheapy people, they're there to scare you and convince you there's a bigger problem that costs tens of thousands of dollars to fix. It's the

Hamish: $20 oil change. It's the loss leader, you know? Get you in the door and then recommend a bunch of work. But okay,

Osman: I can see, I've, I

Hamish: like, deal momentum's in here, and it's totally a hang-up, right?

Osman: Um- What, say that again. What do you mean by deal momentum? Deal momentum. So yeah, it, we have,

Hamish: in this hypothetical, buyers that are on a tight timeline, like they need to get their inspection pronto, dente, and there might not even be time to have a, a rooter in there before the inspection

Osman: comes. Well, it's friction. You don't, you don't want a completely smooth deal that's too easy, that raises, uh, suspicion on either side. But at the same time, I mean, for this one, we had to go back three times before we could get it scoped, and, uh, at that point, I mean, you've got deadlines. Everything's very tight, so just the simple $200 clean-out can push back a deal, like, a, a week pretty easily, and even then not be 100%, um, finished with the, the sewer scope or the quotes or everything needed there too. So it, it has the ability to kind of just unwind this deal over something that is preventative maintenance. And then at the same time, why is the buyer paying for something that isn't their house? Like, maintenance on not their house. rootering is generally maintenance. Yeah. And now that's where I, that's why I stand where I do. But let me go back to deal momentum- Yeah, yeah. for a moment, because I, I'm not sure I heard an explanation that jibed for me. And deal momentum is a, is something that happens in all sorts of deals. It isn't just real estate. Yeah. It's the pace in buying a car. It's the pace in a Wall Street deal. It's the pace in, uh, and I, I saw this in equities research. I saw this when I was involved in,

Osman: uh, potentially taking a company public and all the different avenues to get there. And boy, deal momentum is a really big deal. And if you, if you. I guess that's a pun. Deal momentum's a big deal. It's a, it, it is, it has a huge aspect or impact on whether things actually reach the conclusions you want them to reach. Right. And if deal momentum stalls, it may never come back together again. Right. And when, when there are delays caused by the seller's lack of maintenance, I think it's fair to ask for extensions to be allowed for more time. And in this particular deal that Hamish is talking about, the seller eventually said, "We're not giving you extensions." Yep. Uh, because first they gave us one extension, but once we realized there's a problem and we need estimates, they did not wanna give us another extension. And the real reason was they had an offer that was $25,000 higher- Totally. and closing in 10 days, and they, so they had 25,000 reasons to tell us to buzz off. But at the end of the day, the, the actual cost to repair the sewer line is not gonna be that expensive. And as, particularly as a percentage of this particular property's purchase price, it's just gonna need a sewer liner, and liners, by the way, are not

Osman: flimsy little things. They are a pipe within a pipe. Yep. And they are rock solid solutions when they work, and it may not always work. Installer dependent. Well, if there's a dislocation in the line that's significant, they can't do a liner. They have to dig it up. But if there's not a dislocation- They can usually line it, um, depending on the age of the home and all sorts of factors. I'm not a sewer line expert. Right. But I, I feel like we are experts in deal momentum and deal flow, and in this particular case, we wrote a contract that was really tight on inspections, and we did that so that we won the bidding war, and we're gonna talk about this a little further down in the deal. Yeah. All right, let's. in, in this. we're gonna talk about that a little further down in the docket. Right. But what, Hamas, you wrote, what if, what if it's actually. what if the sewer line's actually messed up? Yeah.

Hamish: Now what happens? Well, it depends on the market you're in, right? If you have a, an lovely little backup offer that's even less contingencies and, and whatnot, and you're the seller, you could say,

Osman: "I'm not playing ball." Um,

Hamish: though it's up to the buyer that's submitting the objection whether or not they want to withdraw with, uh, resolution or not. Though, though I think the what if kind of stays,

Osman: but, um- Well, for many years I said you can't sell a house with a broken sewer line. And it turns out there are exceptions to that. And the exception to that is if there's a backup offer that doesn't care about the sewer line that doesn't care about the house. If the value of this deal is in the lot, then you might get a buyer that's like doesn't care about any of these things at all in backup position and they might force the. You know, this is all about leverage. And if the seller has the leverage to tell the buyer to buzz off, take it or leave it, they have the leverage to do that, and then it's up to the buyer whether they want it or not. Yep. Um, and in some cases, the buyer might still want it because replacing a sewer line or, or repairing a sewer line or patching a sewer line should not keep you from buying the right house in Boulder. It is really hard to find the right house. So- And the, yeah, key word, the right house. It's not, it's not pleasant to have an unexpected $10,000 repair cost that's getting, you know, added into your- Budget, right? experience. Yeah, yeah. But if that's what it takes to get the right house, you should not shy away from it because $11,000

Osman: is not even a, not even a rounding error. However, I agree that the seller should, in a world of should and could and principles and everything, take care of that. And in our particular case, they would if they had not had this other offer in backup. Totally.

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah. But more details on that when we hit the sales of the

Osman: week. But for the tale from the trench, really this question remains, whose responsibility is it? Is it the buyer's or is it the seller's, and what's your approach?

Hamish: Yep. I think our vote's the same, right? We both believe the seller. It's their

Osman: property. I think it's the right move for the seller to have had the line cleaned. Yeah. We could have made it contractual, but if we did that, it likely- Oh, totally. would have pushed the, the. uh, it would have reduced the attractiveness of our offer in a potential bidding war. And that is-

Hamish: So all we did was request it. all respect to the listing agent, but he knows damn well why we didn't put it on the offer, because it

Osman: does make your- Well, well we're talking about two different deals. It's a she. Well, different- Oh, wait. Yeah. We, we're confusing two different deals. Yep, yep. Both had sewer line issues. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Sorry. This one, um, that was

Hamish: like, "Why didn't you put it in the offer?" He knows damn well why it wasn't in the offer. Right. And the seller,

Osman: and the seller in this other deal agreed to it. Yeah. Once we told them, "We have to re-scope. We want you to pay for the re-scope and the cleaning" they said, "Yes, okay. We agree with you. That's a seller cost." Yeah. And- In this other deal this other deal, the, the the listing agent thinks it's really a buyer's cost to have the line cleaned, which is, which was a surprise. Yeah. And yeah.

Hamish: Uh, all credit, but it, it's, it was almost snarky to be like, "Well, why didn't you put it in the offer?" It's like,

Osman: you've been in this, in this for years. No, he knows. Yeah, exactly. He knew damn well why it's not in the offer. Yeah. Exactly. Come on, man. And again, it, and again, it was a request and they can say no. Um, but it, it irritated him. Totally. So, okay. And now we know why, because this whole time he's been on buyer side scope and we've been on seller side scope. Yeah. I mean, fair enough. Yeah. If that's actually the case, then for sure we have a difference of business practice. Yeah. Okay. Oh. Let's talk about our market update. Oh, cool. And this is what we, uh, what we hinted at. So none of this should really be a surprise, but there's some interesting little tidbits in this. So first of all, I'm talking about the city of Boulder only, single family houses, and what I define as Boulder proper, which means. So what people need to understand is within the city of Boulder, there are some neighborhoods that are technically not in the city of Boulder. They are un-annexed little islands of unincorporated Boulder County. But buyers don't care about that, okay? Frankly, no one's ever said to me, "I really have to be in the city 'cause I have to vote in city politics." Got it. Right? Yeah. In fact, most people

Osman: would rather be out of the city and not have to deal with city politics, but with that said, um, what I do is I draw a line around Boulder proper, and I've been using the search map for the shapefile for a really long time, and that's what I consider Boulder proper. So that's the data we're talking about, and it's pretty much what you think. It does not include Gunbarrel. Um, it is what most people think of as the city of Boulder. And under 1.5 million, it's still very clearly a, a seller's market with only about two months of supply. And above three million, it's very much a buyer's market with 11 to 15 months of supply. And what I did is I looked at the last 90 days of market activity, particularly including expired and withdrawn listings to see what's coming back on market and what's, what's failing. And in that three plus million dollar tier, 36 listings expired or, or were withdrawn in the last three months and only 14 sales. So what does that mean? That means two and a half failed listings for every closing. And then above five million it gets even worse. It's 16 failures against four sales- Yeesh. in the last three months. So for every sale, there are four failures. Yeah.

Hamish: You imagine telling that to your seller?

Osman: I think that that's the, how the conversation starts when they call me and they say, "Osman, I'd really like to list with you," or, "I'd like to explore listing with you. Walk me through your marketing" "and walk me through your pricing. Walk me through how you conduct your business." I'm gonna say, "Check out our podcast." And also I'm gonna say, "Holy cow, you have a gorgeous house. I'm in love with it. But in the five plus million dollar category, you're looking at one sale and four failures."

Hamish: Yeah. The market might not be in love

Osman: with this home. The market may not be and so we have to do a lot of preparation to get this house to look amazing. In addition to all of our photography and videography, we have to benchmark against other listings. And by the way, I need a two-year listing agreement. And I think I'm gonna also ask for you to cover the budget for marketing, because this is not a high probability of success. This is a high probability of failure. Yeah. This is, I. one of the reasons I think a lot of the high-end agents spend so much money putting their faces on their marketing for the high end because they know there's a really good chance this house ain't selling. Yeah. So I better get something for having taken this listing and done all this work, and what I'm gonna get is exposure. Right. So I'm willing to take the listing- Totally. and then- And have that listing accompanied with your name or associated, yeah Right. I'm gonna make it look like I'm the best agent on the planet and associate me with this $6 million listing, and I'm using this listing to market me. And that's how they get,

Hamish: that's- And they'll quietly delete it. There's no notification when you're following deletes a post, you know, they can get away with it.

Osman: Okay. So- 100%. It works.

Hamish: Um, it's done. But it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's. I mean, what, you've got to price it to start

Osman: a fight. Okay, so that's the last piece of the analysis, the other conclusion, and that is there were two homes listed in the last 90 days at, at 999.99. This is just under a million bucks, and both of these homes were radically underpriced, and I believe they were done, they were underpriced without the seller's full implicit knowledge. I don't know that for a fact. Quick disclosure. Okay, I wanna make it clear, I do not know that for a fact. But I think that in both of these cases, the seller was not fully informed about the market value of the home, and it might have been a bit of an

Hamish: accident. And in some of these cases, the agent, too.

Osman: and in this latter case the one, the first one that we're gonna talk about, I'm pretty sure the agent was not expecting to happen what happened. So I'm not gonna mention her by name, um, but she was on the other side of our deal on Kenwood Drive, which we just closed at 32% above list, and that was priced at 999,999. And it's an estate sale. So estate sales are often scenarios where the family has been dealing with prolonged illness and the family member eventually passes, and now the estate needs to get this cleaned up preferably within a short period of time so that it doesn't cross over into another tax year, right? They really want and mentally they would like this chapter of life to be over. And they may not have been lived in this community at all or they may have lived here decades ago. They don't really have market knowledge. They've moved on or, yeah. They too could be elderly and not really in tune with the tools that help you establish value today. And so w- I'm not entirely sure. Again, I don't know what happened. It's, it's actually one of the.

Hamish: I mean, it's kinda how estate sales are. You don't really know, you know?

Osman: Uh, the- Well, you've dealt with that yourself. Yeah. Internationally you've dealt with an estate sale and not really have the deep market knowledge. So- I didn't have any authority on that one, too. Okay. Yeah. So you may not have authority to sign on anything but still you were tracking it. And what I think happened was it was accidentally underpriced or the seller was told maybe it's worth 1,000,050 and we're just gonna price it, to be smart, let's price it below a million. And this particular location in Highland Park is extremely coveted. Yeah. And if you look at, uh, up on, on this hillside, you will see five, $6 million homes, even more, even higher than that. Like, it is, it is absolutely stunningly beautiful, and you have Flatiron views from the backyard. Front yard. And from the front yard. Yeah. And most importantly, this house had a giant lot. Yeah. And even though the house itself was quite dated, it's a box on a box, which makes it a very buildable platform. And, um, but it it's almost irrelevant because with 14,000 square feet is a lot, which is almost double what you would expect to be up there, you can build a gigantic luxury home if that's what you want.

Osman: And if for people that are looking for these lots to build homes on, 14,000 square feet in the city limits in Table Mesa in South Boulder is a very rare thing. Yeah. It's not a standard ranch with a basement and a 7,000 square foot lot in the middle of Table Mesa. It's Highland Park with 14,000 square feet. So our client, we'd been working with her for a while, and we had missed out on another bidding war. But she lives in the neighborhood. She's deeply knowledgeable about- Listener of the podcast, right? She's a, I, I think she's a listener of the podcast. Yeah. But she knows Boulder neighborhoods very well. She was very specific about what she was looking for, and she needed no convincing on what we needed to go to on this list. And so we actually ended up with a strategy I call hurry up offense which is a strategy of, okay, it's an inexperienced agent, it's day one of the listing, it's radically underpriced. We need to give the seller an offer that they have a hard time saying no to. And so we offered a, a pretty high number with an escalation clause, uh, and they showed up with an, a competing offer. We gave them 24 hours, not 48. 24 is reasonable. They wanted 48 to go collect offers. We

Osman: said no. Yep. We gave them 24. That pissed off the listing agent. She told me she was very angry about that, but w- I and she said that her clients are elderly. Well, that's showbiz, baby. So she told us that. Yeah. She said the clients are elderly, and they're, you know, one of them, I think she even said was in the hospital. They're not gonna be able to respond that fast. But they did respond that fast. They responded within a few hours of our offer and, and they showed us the competing offer. So somebody else was trying to compete on this. Um, and that did escalate our offer higher, but not quite as high as we had offered to go. Right. Um, they, it did bump up, uh, and they countered at that number. We were actually willing to go substantially above that number so it looked like a great deal, and it turned out to be a great deal because later on in the contract process, we learned that there was another offer that came in even higher than ours, 25,000 higher than ours, and would have closed very quickly, and didn't care about the house at all. Yeah. So this particular house, we feel like we got a really good deal, and I also believe our seller's risk, downside risk, is extremely

Hamish: limited because- Your buyer's downside risk. Oh,

Osman: sorry. Yeah. The buyer's downside risk is extremely limited because the land alone is worth a lot more than she paid for the house. Yeah. It's commanding- Than she paid for the property. it, it, I mean, what a kind of nice feeling to be like, "Well, I'm buying this house," and somebody already is offering

Hamish: more, you know, for as is.

Osman: As is. Yeah. No, no negotiations. So they used that as leverage to, to basically cut off our negotiations over inspection issues, which is fine. it's expected. I would give myself, you know, being a child of Indian origin parents, I would give myself an A, not an A+. I really wish we could have also hammered the seller on inspection items. Would've been great. But they rightfully told us to take a hike because they had a much better contract in the wings. I think they were hoping for us to terminate. They might have been. Yeah. Uh, I

Hamish: mean, one of the things we talk about with the estate sales is a lot of the time the estate-

Osman: estatees, the trustees, have, uh, already spent the money. Right? They're looking at, uh, what they

Hamish: could get from the sale, and, um, they want X, Y, and Z, so they're not willing. Well, they're very upset to negotiate to begin with. And then to have, you know, maybe they wanted a, a yacht that was five foot larger, um, and that o-

Osman: other offer would've gotten it, so they're saying kick rocks on the inspection. I mean, you, you can't, you, you can't buy much of a yacht for 1.3 million these days. But I will say- But, you know, that, yeah. yes, sellers and their family members in estate sales often have already mentally spent the money. They've also dealt with hardship. They've also dealt with family members' illnesses. Um, they would like this. They may not even get along with each other. Oh, yeah. adult, adults may not even, you know, uh, the, the trustees may not even like each other anymore. We have had that situation arise. So they kinda wanna wash their hands and be out. Um, and that's an important consideration for whether you play hurry-up offense or not. And in this particular case, the agent's experience level played into it when we realized that she didn't have a lot of experience. And it felt like she was also a part-time agent, because there were multiple times she was just unreachable. Yeah. Um, when normal, when normal business hours are pretty much 9:00 AM to 8:00 at night for real estate um, this agent was really upset with me for trying to negotiate with her at 5:00, and she told me that she was upset with her. Uh, she was trying

Osman: to cook dinner for her family Ozmen. "I'm trying to cook dinner for my family." And I'm like, "Oh, okay." You're like, "That's fair. However-" But tonight's our deadline at 7:00. Yeah. So we have two hours to solve this, so I'm. I don't wanna be. And, uh, she, she was very angry with me. Um, but also, I think that, uh, this caught her radically by surprise. She's not a Boulder agent. She's with an, with a brokerage that doesn't have much Colorado presence. And I think people join this brokerage, I've done some research on their business model, largely they are a lead capture brokerage. Okay. They're really good at getting leads, and they look for agents that have three to seven years of experience to come join them, and then they do a really hefty split. Like, if I give you the lead as the broker then I. You're gonna get 50% of the deal. Wow. And so I suspect that's what's going on in the back end, although I don't know their business model. But it. The only reason why you would join this brokerage is they offer leads. And, and that's what AI says is their business model, is you actually get real leads. Most brokerages don't. I'm curious how they're getting these leads, because it's not an agency or a brokerage that does a lot of

Osman: business in Boulder, and it's not an agent that does a lot of business in Boulder, even though she claims she did. Yeah. She. Which was really kinda funny, 'cause we have the data on who does a lot of business in Table Mesa. We know who does a lot of business in Table Mesa. yeah. And I mean, we could speculate all day long, but, um- It's all speculation. Yeah,

Hamish: yeah. Sure. But I mean, like, you know, maybe the. That's how it happened. Like, the trustees saw an ad and they got targeted even, um, by this brokerage, and they were like, "Let's go," and, um,

Osman: however. But boy- Well, the-. this house anywhere else, like, even just in lower Table Mesa, um, would- 1.1. people would- 1.2. uh- It was

Hamish: on a small lot. and less likely to be scraped, but more renovated and lived in. Like- Maybe. Highland Park, though, is like, this house is dead. Like, like they're gonna, you know.

Osman: This house is gonna be a good investment play for our client in the decade or two when she decides she's. time to sell. I think she's gonna do extremely well because of the value of the land. And one of the other things driving the value of the land I wanna mention for our listeners is that Boulder County currently has a uh, m- Moratorium. moratorium on big houses. Yep. And there's a whole bunch of nuance to how that moratorium works, but there is a hard cap on how big your house can go. And it used to be that you could go 20% over the median of your neighborhood. They got rid of that, so you are really kinda screwed if you're trying to build a big, luxurious house in unincorporated Boulder County. So what has that done? This is always the squeeze the balloon. It has made large lots in desirable locations like Highland Park worth a lot more than they used to be worth, and I don't see any reason that that's gonna change. Yeah. Yeah, so that's. I mean, it's the, the Highland Park story, is you've got these low-listed homes that are going for double-digit percentages over ask. The other one- You know? was 2335 Dartmouth, which is in a far less attractive location. It's a. It's right up against the

Osman: open space, which sounds nice, but the views are industrial. You see the industrial facilities of NIST. Yep. You don't see. Uh, and it's not oriented toward the Flatirons at all. So that lot will also likely be scraped, but it wasn't as large. I think it was 10,000 square feet, and it went for 1.2. And Dartmouth Ave is a busy street unlike Kenwood. So it was a no-brainer to go to 1.325, and, uh, we were even willing to go higher than that, and so my client is extremely happy. Yeah. Although I, I, again, as that,

Hamish: you know, the- It's always like, "Oh, we could've."

Osman: I want the A+ man. Like, I came home with a high grade, my dad was always like "Where's the A+? It with an A." Yeah. So, um, and I wasn't always an A student. Sometimes I was a B student. Um, sometimes I might have even gotten a C, but it was always a push for, "You can do better," and I, I always would like to do better for our clients. But in the end of the day, I'm pretty happy with this particular deal. But I imagine there are people that are gonna scratch their head and go, "Holy cow, they paid 30% over list." Yep. It was priced too low. Oh, yeah, there's going to be, yeah. And so the right way to do this type of sale, okay, if you're gonna try to, to, to have the market clearing price, okay, listed at a million 999,999, but make sure your client knows that, that. or they've chosen this strategy. Yeah. It's not just know. Yeah. They want this strategy, and then you don't take the first offer on day one. You let it run, and in California, in the Bay Area, you let it run for two weeks before you collect all offers, and you collect offers with no contingencies. Yeah. If you wanna inspect it, inspect it, but your price should reflect the home in its current condition, and we will give you a home n-

Osman: owners inspection. We'll pay for the one that we give that to all buyers, and then it's up to you if you wanna continue to inspect. But you have two weeks to come bring your architect, come decide what you can build on this thing, and then show up with a price that has no contingencies. No loan contingencies even. Yeah. Um, so they want the entire deal sealed in two weeks. I like that model if you're gonna play this game. You know, if you have one of these listings, yeah. But the the surprise bidding war was almost certainly the way that this agent was. Uh, the vibe I got from her was very much this was a surprise. I don't think she. I, I th- I, I do think the seller should be happy with this deal, by the way. But I think they also left money, and we know that they left at least 25 grand on the table. Yeah. And had it been, you know, if had that been available for two full weeks or even a full week before you accepted offers it's quite possible it could have gone higher. And that's the hurry

Hamish: hurry up offense.

Osman: Yeah. That's, that's, that's the hurry up offense against an agent with less than seven years of experience. And next week we might tell you about- Or the week after. the hurry up offense with an experienced agent. And how we were told to go pound sand with virtually the same strategy. My clients, our clients are still under contract, but they they, this agent was, was not having it with this approach. Stay tuned.

Hamish: So 610 Streamside Lane.

Osman: Okay. Yeah. Well, let's talk about this house. If you're familiar with the west side of Arapahoe here in Boulder you, you will see this little carve out street, and it is west of 9th and east of 6th Street, and it's this little dog leg. I don't know exactly when all of the homes were developed. This particular one was built in 1999. It's on a tiny lot, only 3,600 square feet, and it's a 2,500 square foot two story house with a two car attached garage, and it very much looks like it's out of the late '90s, both from its architecture and its interior finishes. There's some. All right, the fireplace is newer, um, but the kitchen looks like it might be from 1999 with maybe some backsplash type updates, maybe solid surfaces. But we're not talking about like, we're not talking about a turnkey house, uh, that has been thoroughly gutted and remodeled. We're talking about 20-year-old finishes throughout a lot of this house. But it's a functional house. Look, it's in a great location except for this one thing, and this one thing is on. One of the things that makes it a great location is that it backs to Boulder Creek, but that's also the thing that makes it a horrible location because this is a a spot in town that is unfortunately inundated with

Osman: people experiencing homelessness, and that often means people that are on drugs and camped in the stream corridor, in the riparian corridor along the bike path. It's been a constant problem for the last, more than the last decade. I don't know when it it really got bad, but it has been really bad for a long time. I was gonna say, have you been recently?

Hamish: Since the camping ban I've seen, like,

Osman: so many less, uh- I think it's still pretty bad. Okay. I just went running on, on the Boulder bike path the other day and there were lots of people still- So from the street they've got it cleaned up- So I, I-. but, like, yeah. I don't even know if it's from the street, but this particular spot when you. So it's really pretty to have this, this stream in the back, right? Oh, yeah. Like, if it wasn't for the homelessness issue here I would wanna live here all day long. It's absolutely gorgeous, and you're so close to downtown, but you also have security risks of people that are in your backyard that might be on drugs or mentally ill, and that can be really scary. We've had multiple clients now have interactions with people on the street that have scared the heck out of them and changed their entire perspective on living close to downtown. So unfortunately I think that played into the listing story of this particular property. It was originally listed in June at 2.5. Wow. After about a month they cut it to 2.4, and then it eventually went under contract in August. They had a really long contingency period. We're talking about almost two full months before it closed at 2.2. So it sold for almost 200,000 below

Osman: the list price, which is roughly about 10%, and in line with what you'd expect for the fourth quarter. Um, no disclosed concessions. Buyer was represented by a Redfin agent that doesn't really know the local market. I sure see, this is the issue, right? Yeah. Does the Redfin agent, did they tell them that this is a problem in this location, or do they click a button, get the Redfin agent say, "Oh, my God, it's a beautiful day," and on that beautiful day there was no homeless people in the backyard or in the creek and so they don't know that this is a problem in this location. And I hope- And it's a $2.2 million buyer too. I, I hope- You know? I hope the buyer knew, but I don't know if they were advised accordingly or not. Yeah. We have sold houses not that far away from this location, and we warned our clients in writing, "Awesome house. It's so attractive. Awesome access to the stream." However- But there's also a problem with proximity to Eben G. Fine and all of the people that are hanging out, down and out, and sometimes on drugs and sometimes mentally ill that will be in your backyard and on the street. Yeah. So anyway, that's 610 Streamside Lane. We would have advised our client to not

Osman: even- I'd say too, you're- Even, we would advise our client to not even look at it. Yeah. And, and you're second home in from 6th Street,

Hamish: so I mean, you're probably still gonna get some, uh, some traffic noise as well out of that.

Osman: Our next one is 2585 Kohler Drive, and this is a cautionary tale for our Boulder buyers, and the cautionary tale is these people own the house for two months before they put it back on market hoping to get a little more than they paid for it, and instead they ended up taking a half a million dollar loss, more than, more than a half a million dollar when you, when you consider commissions were involved. So we're back to Highland Park. We're talking about a very large lot, 25,000 square feet. Uh, 2585 Kohler Drive was acquired for 2,492,500, so just below 2.5, in August of 2025, and the owners uh, they decided that, uh, this is not the right house for them, we don't know why, and they put it back on the market in October. So two months later, and not even two full months, okay? Like, they had it back on the market less than two full months, the beginning of October. Um, and they bought it at the end of August, and they had it on the market at the beginning of October at 2.6. After a month they cut it to what they paid for it and that didn't fly, so by the end of the year they pulled it off briefly right before the holidays and then brought it back in February, again at that price roughly of what they paid for it. Nothing happened. They weren't able to attract a buyer, so a month

Osman: later they cut it to 2.4, then 2.3 a month after that, and then finally in August a buyer offered low- And acquired it for just under $2 million. So that is a discount of more than 10% from the last list price. Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a shocking loss for the seller, and I wonder what happened. I suspect they acquired this house, which was built in the '60s, thinking that maybe they could scrape it and build their dream house. But then something changed. It could be they found a better house. Could be actually, yeah. We don't know the backstory on, on this at all, and we know the agents involved. They're very competent. Um, but yeah. Yeah. It was not disclosed why they, why they put it back on the market. But ultimately, yeah, it sold for $1 million, 965. Very large lot in Highland Park, a very desirable location. And $2 million for this giant lot is dirt value. So I think the buyer got themselves a fantastic deal by shopping in the fourth quarter. And it looks like uh, it was the listing agent who brought the buyer. So at the end of the day, it's a, it's a half a million dollar loss for the seller, but it's quite possible that what they found on the other end, the reasons that they decided to sell this house um, justify that loss.

Osman: Yeah. As the buyer I'd w- I'd wanna know, but this new sale price looks. I mean,

Hamish: I'm going off of our, uh, listing that sold,

Osman: um, last year in May, uh, 2015 Kohler Drive,

Hamish: and that one's a little bit higher up on, uh, Kohler Drive, so a bit more elevation, and it's got the Highland Park as the backdrop. Smaller lot and a more dated home. Um, I think it, it kind of tracks as far as

Osman: a trend goes, seeing

Hamish: 2585's updated sale price, not that,

Osman: um- Yes. very high one beforehand. I mean, there's a bunch of reasons why the lot may not have worked for them. One of those reasons is that, um, they may have assumed you could go way up on the hillside. Yeah. And you can't. There are height limits that begin at the lowest point on the lot. Yeah. If you're a lot buyer, you need to understand that. And so that could have driven it. It could also be they discovered that Kohler Drive is way too busy. Uh- It is pretty busy, yeah. gets a lot of traffic, so that could. I mean, the one we just closed on, Kenwood, does not get that much traffic. No. So that could have easily been the reason that, that this, uh, that this, they took a loss that quickly. Good one, though. I, I see Kohler Drive now and I immediately think of, uh, that listing, so need to see it pop through. So 808 10th Street, historic. Okay, you wanna move on. I'm it's such a cur-. I'm, I'm tempted to call the listing agent to find out what really happened here. You should. Um, maybe, maybe I will. Yeah. But let's, yeah, let's move on to a historic house on the hill. It's a historic Tudor revival at 808 10th Street, and the only thing I felt sad about is that this house doesn't have a cute historic name. I

Osman: was really hoping it did. Oh, is it- 'Cause it looks-. like a historic name? It looks so, um, it looks so historic. And basically, it's a evolution of historic styles, and they used cobblestone and fieldstone to create this look in the 1920s. Um, the house today is. I, look, I love historic homes, and this is intriguing, although a home that has this type of, of cobblestone exterior, I would really wanna understand construction techniques, um, and also see that it has been very well taken care of. And it certainly looks that way from all the photos. The updates inside are all extremely attractive. It's tidy looking, you know? It, they're, they're in line with the historic nature of the home. It's charming in so many ways, and it has this two-car garage behind it, uh, which I like it the, the notes say, "Can truly fit two cars inside with creative angling"-. which tells you there's something going on with that garage. I'd like

Hamish: to, a flashback to seeing the agent try to fit two cars in there.

Osman: It's a, it's a four bedroom, three bath, 2,600 square foot home and a decent size lot for the hill, but that's where really I, I wonder if the buyer knows what they were buying because the noise in this location as our, as our friendly noise map points out this is a spot that gets a lot of sound from the students.

Hamish: Yeah, I was thinking it would've been on the other side of

Osman: 9th. I didn't realize the further east you go, the higher the street numbers. So it's in the Red Cup District- Super. which is a, it's a huge negative, and we would not have recommended this to our clients, even the ones that really appreciate historic homes, without a lot of caveats. Like I, I say it two or three times when there's something like this with our buyers that, that wanna see a house that's so attractive and cute and has a two-car garage. Like it, this is a very. If you're into historic homes, this would've intrigued you. Yeah. But if you didn't know that you're in the Red Cup District, you're gonna find out really fast, especially on a weekend like the one coming up-. when you've got a CU football game and Halloween all happening on Saturday. The football game's on Sunday. I'm gonna try some good costumes. You, you're gonna see uh, crazy partying-. on the hill this weekend. Yeah. Oh, that's a shame too, 'cause it is a very cute home. I love that front door. Yeah. It sold for 1.85. I guess I should mention the listing history. It wasn't on the market that long. It was, um, it listed at, in mid-September at 1.89. It sold for 1.85, so only a $40,000 discount to list.

Osman: Uh, these sellers were not gonna let it, you know, were not gonna give it away. And for a historic home buyer exclusive of the location, I think this would've attracted them. Yeah. Provided they went in with eyes wide open, I think it's, it's great. I, I just don't know the backstory there at all. Yeah. I'm not opposed to a modern kitchen in a historic home either. I think

Hamish: as far as that goes, it's kind of nice to have up-to-date appliances when you're cooking.

Osman: The buy-side agent is described as a non-IRES agent, meaning they're not on the MLS. They're like- It's a co-op non-IRES. Yeah. Yeah. Which likely implies they're a Denver agent, and may not know the issues in the

Hamish: neighborhood. Yeah. Oh, well, the hill's over there, you know?

Osman: Yeah, you're so far from the students. I don't see any students nearby. Yeah. Anyway, let's go inside quick. I mean, the showing, the showing could've been on a weekend that, you know, that there's not a lot of students in town. It could've been a-

Hamish: Parents are in town, so the students are all on their best

Osman: behavior. Could it could be. Yeah. All right, 36 Cloverleaf Drive is our last sale of the week, and it's a simple bi-level. They're all over Boulder with very similar floor plans, mostly built around the same time period. This one was built in 1963. 8,400 square foot lot, which is a little bigger than typical. And when you look at the photos of this basic bi-level, it's an attractive home. Um, it looks like it's had some nice updates. It is functional. It, it is your typical bi-level. The wall has been removed in the kitchen, which separates the kitchen from the living area, and typically requires structural work up above it to make that happen, but it's not rocket science. Many homeowners have done that over the years. Yep. Um, the virtual staging is horrendous-. but it gets the point across. And why did this house not sell? It took a long time. It was listed originally in October. Nope, sorry, back it up even further. September of 2025, so over a year ago, at $1,175,000, which is a perfectly reasonable price except for the one thing, and that is it's a busy location. And I think that even if you're priced right, you may have to wait a long time to attract the right buyer. Eventually, they cut the price. Well, first they raised the price,

Osman: then they cut the price. I don't understand the raise the price mentality. Like our home didn't sell at $1,175,000, so let's make it $1,185,000, but okay. Surely it will. They tried that. Maybe they were, they, maybe they put some money into it and they wanted to try to recoup

Hamish: that. Accidental fat finger.

Osman: No. I mean, no, I think this was intentional. I mean, look, some people think this, right? They put in $10,000 into a new furnace, and they're like, "Well, now my list price is $10,000 higher. I'm just gonna sell it for more." Doesn't really work that way, people. And, uh, eventually- No. they dropped the price to $1,160,000, which even $1,185,000 was not an unattractive price, and they sold it for $1,145,000. So the buyer took another $15,000 off of the list price in their negotiations. Um, no disclosed concessions, but the buyer also bought a home that is gonna be hard to sell in the future, and that's because this corner of Kalmia and Cloverleaf gets a lot of traffic, and you're right on the corner. There's a, it's a stop sign there, too. Oh, and it's a stop sign. Oh, yeah. So you get the noise. So that, that adds to it. Really, the stop sign factor, you get cars stopping and accelerating, the engine noises, it's it's not what you want if you're trying to maximize long-term appreciation or investment performance. Um, it, it is what you want if you want a livable bi-level, but bi-levels also are not the most attractive. In fact, I would say they're the least attractive of the standard house designs you see of the era.

Osman: Yeah. So the '50s through the '80s bi-level, the standard bi-level, it's hard to fathom why this style of house was ever super popular,

Hamish: but- Such a chunk of that floor plan is stairs, you know, for a bi-level.

Osman: It's, it's awkward. It has an awkward walk-in, right? Yeah. So you walk into stairs with very little landing, which is why somebody at some point probably added that front patio area, that little not even a patio. It's just an entryway that's covered. It's to help create more of a sense of space and, and fix that really tight stair, uh, that stair landing that then immediately splits in two directions up and down. Yeah. But most of our buyers really don't like that, and and Table Mesa is dotted with these houses. Um, this particular house is in Melody, which is in North Boulder. Decent location except for the busy street, and then the less attractive bi-level design. I was gonna ask about the location. That's, yeah, I- I'm not super familiar with this spot. I like, I like Melody. This is a great little neighborhood, but Kalmia and Cloverleaf is just gonna be busier particularly just west of 19th. You're gonna get decent amounts of traffic. So. Okay. Okay. This- I mean, I would call this, like, a, a. No offense to the buyers, but this is sort of a C-minus as far as a house goes. Like, at the same time- You're grading them? I like that. Yeah. like, I used to actually give numbers and have a whole grade- Osment score, yeah. Osment score

Osman: for all these houses. Like, this house is- Maybe I have to bring that back. I mean, for what it is, it's a nicely updated bi-level. But from an investment perspective, wearing that hat, I would have strongly encouraged our clients not to buy this house because

Hamish: you're- The compromised location.

Osman: you're in a compromised location that you can never fix. Yeah. Everything else you can fix. Even the bi-level design, you could do

Hamish: interesting things with. People bump out the front, right? And then,

Osman: yeah. We've had clients do really cool things with bi-levels. It's possible. It's more expensive, but it's possible. But you can't fix the location. Yep.

Hamish: Unless you're in city council. Maybe you can then.

Osman: But then you can't fix stupid. Yeah. Well said. All right. Let's move on. Yeah. Shameless self-promotion. Oh, perfect.

Hamish: These buyers have been on a journey. Um, we wouldn't have taken them to see

Osman: that historic home, 800 10th Street. Was it 800? But, um,

Hamish: because, I mean, we know the location.

Osman: It- Well, it no longer works for them. Yeah. And the location would be a bad idea. Like, we would tell them, "This is a bad idea." Yeah. They may still wanna see it, which we'll, we'll do the showing, but then we're, we're experiencing clients that tend to talk themselves into a bad decision. Yeah. And that, we warn them of that potential, but these particular clients have gone from looking at historic homes, mostly downtown, to no longer interested as much in a historic home downtown, and the reason is of, uh, family changes. Easy enough. Sorry. A, a multiple generational family changes. Yeah. And I don't need to go into much more detail there other than to say now they're looking at a lock and leave luxury town home or condo, preferably without a lot of maintenance requirements. That's what lock and leave means. It means that you can basically leave it for three months turn off the water, if you're smart-. and the property will be fine because it's in a building that is maintained, and nobody even knows whether you're there or not. So we've looked at stuff in The Arete. We've looked at other luxury downtown options. Yeah. And we haven't quite found the right one yet, but I also recognize that that end of the market has been

Osman: brutalized by-. high inventory and slow sales, so there's a lot of withdrawn and expired listings that exist. Yeah. And if you are a listener and you have something in The Arete or in a similar building close to downtown, preferably walkable to the Highland City Club within 10 minutes, if you've got that and you are interested in selling it for fair market, we have clients that are ready, willing, and able, um, and there could be a deal, particularly if you have a property that you're not really utilizing. A lot of these homes were bought as second homes. They were bought as, uh, vacations or maybe, uh, they wanted to be close to grandkids, that type of thing. Yeah. An executive purchase. Adult attached. Well, they, what they want is well-built luxury living that doesn't require a lot of upkeep and maintenance and has the ability to lock it and leave it and go travel and, and visit family and friends in other parts of the country that now need their presence to be there. Yeah.

Hamish: Serious buyers, too. Uh, if it's a, if it looks like it's gonna be a good fit, they'll take a serious look at the, at whatever you've got.

Osman: Yeah. And I will also add, this is one. They're now becoming very good friends, and we've been looking for a number of years. Their pacing has been a little bit on the slow side, which is okay. Like, we're not in a rush ever with our clients. We don't anticipate it taking multiple years, but sometimes it does. And during these years, we've just gotten to be really good friends. Yeah. And I, I really like these people, and I, and I hope we can find them something that works for their family. Yeah. And for what it's worth, their pace seems to have increased recently. It. They're a little more motivated now. And I will also say that this is one of the secret benefits of the real estate profession, is you end up making new friends as adults with really fun and interesting people, and it's something I love about my

Hamish: job. What else do you love? The news? Do you like the news? You wanna do the news. I think it's time for the

Osman: news. The time. Are we running-- How's our time here? Uh, we are

Hamish: roughly hitting the two-hour mark. Okay.

Osman: I think we can do the news. Yeah. Okay, our first news item, Alpine-Balsam. If you've been tracking this for a while, you know that we have been very critical of this project because of its excessive cost. Which is now almost $400 million when you include the interest on all the loans, and it went. I mean, it, the, the pavilion alone went from 58 million to 117, and one of the city council candidates is calling it

Hamish: Brockett's Ballroom. Yeah. That's the mayor if you-

Osman: Which, which, which w- Aaron is our, is, uh, is running for city mayor, and, uh, and he is, uh, has been actually one of the, in my opinion, one of the better council people. But this rush decision to buy the hospital building and not do proper due diligence has cost the taxpayers an enormous amount of money, and anybody that tells you differently is not really being honest about it. And there's been an independent analysis of, of a white paper, if you look online you can find the white paper. Hamish, maybe you can link to it, that is really interesting reading to understand the full impact of the cost and a lot of the alternatives that the city could have pursued besides develop this building. And, um, it turns out that the city. Well, this is a different topic. We're gonna, we're gonna hold off on that. Okay. Leave it at that. So that, that's Alpine-Balsam as our top news item because it's now getting very political about, like, we're we're not the only ones that have recognized the the gross overspending on this building. I'll say after reading the Boulder Reporting Lab article, it has put a lot of the cost overrun into context as to why it bloomed as much as it did.

Hamish: Like, I didn't realize they'd started and then COVID hit, and, and all of the deconstruction costs and inflation associated with that. Um, but yeah, I still, still with me. I mean, I was here

Osman: when city council decided to buy this building without a proper public process and without doing due diligence, and they committed us to a massive blank check for its development. Right. And that's what I don't wanna have happen again. I want accountability, and that's what I believe, uh, a lot of our city wants, and that's why I don't think this $400 million blank check is gonna pass in November. We'll find out.

Hamish: But we can move on. Okay.

Osman: Uh, our second one is that the city just passed its budget, and it, uh, 7-1. Uh, Tysha Adams was the only person who voted no, and the city is cutting 24 jobs, but gave everyone else a raise. And of the 24 positions that were cut, only 13 of them actually had people that were working in those positions. Yeah. So they cut 11 unfilled positions, and, and that's how we got to a $552.6 million budget. Um, they are giving staff 5% raises. Uh, police and fire- Police and fire. Yeah. are getting 5% and staff are getting 4%. Marijuana taxes are going from 3.5% to 5.5%, and they're moving some of the wildland fire costs onto, onto open space money. Hm. But that's the big picture of, of how we are, are, uh, how we got the budget passed. But what's interesting is that there was this, uh, tool that was put out on Boulder Reporting Lab that allowed you to cut what you thought you should cut, and 83% of the people cut the city manager's office. Which, you know, that tells you something about how angry our city is about its fiscal mismanagement. Yeah.

Hamish: The number one cut was for the police.

Osman: The number one favored cut. Which I think is, I personally, I, I, I think our law enforcement is doing their best. And I don't want a city that doesn't fund the police and the fire department, so I'm not complaining about that. Yeah. Um, but I also know they've got a really tough job, and they are frequently in the public target. Um, they're in the targets of the public, and but- Hm. I do think they're, they're doing their best to try to improve their social capital, and I see that with their online postings. They're, they're trying to get-

Hamish: Yeah. Their, uh, social media career has

Osman: done really well. Okay. So now let's talk about the Boulder Medical Center plan. Yes. Um, and that is, if you, this is right behind, uh, Ideal Market, or north of Ideal Market, I should say. And it's a, it's currently a medical center, but there's a plan in play to develop it for housing instead. Yeah. And a lot of people are pissed because they're gonna lose their doctor's offices, but I don't think they have much choice here, and city council just voted to call it up. You know what that means? Uh, no. Okay. When they call up the plan, that means there's a whole public process that now gets unfolded- Hm. where there are multiple meetings, and they are discussing the plan, and reiterations are made, and they basically just added a huge amount of cost to the developer, which I'm okay with because I don't necessarily think we should have 223 high-density housing units built there. That's just gonna dump more traffic onto Broadway and make it- Totally. more congested than it already is, and it is a pretty congested part of our city, especially since Alpine-Balsam is adding hundreds of housing units too. Yeah. So we're, so I, I think that I'm glad to see the city council call this up, and, and I don't know if it will derail the developer, but the developer's job just got a lot

Osman: harder. They they are no longer just gonna rubber stamp the permit and say, "Go for it." They're gonna really look at this closely. Well, city staff could build city staff housing here, and it'd be right next to Alpine-Balsam. Okay. So this is the poison pill, Hamish. Uh- Pure sarcasm on that. I heard you. Yeah, yeah. And I'm kind of ignoring it 'cause I wanna talk about what happens when city council calls something up and makes it too difficult for the developer. And as you're probably aware of the armory up here in North Boulder, this is just north of our office. The armory, the developer for that initially was negotiating with the city to, you know, have all sorts of community benefits in the development. And at the end of the day, the city staff and through this call-up process angered the developer so much that he decided to, to build what he could by right. Which means when it's by right, he's complying with the regulations, they can't prevent the permit. Yeah. And so as a consequence of the difficulty- Overbearing. Yeah. I didn't say the word overbearing, Hamish. I would never say that- Oh, okay. about our city staff. Oh, I got you. My bad. I would never say overbearing.

Osman: Right. But as a consequence of the challenges that that process posed to the developer, he decided, they decided to just go full-blown what can, what can we build by right, and that's what they built. And it's kinda sad because there could have been a lot more community use of the armory space. Yeah. And balancing this approach with, between staff and developers- I, and, and the council I think needs to be very carefully managed when they call up something. So we're gonna, we're gonna see how it unfolds going forward. I guess for the Boulder Medical

Hamish: Center, this means that they'll be relocating. I think that's their kind of plan. I mean-

Osman: Yeah. individual, yeah, I, I mean, I, I would assume so. I think they're moving out east uh, closer to the main hospital, but I don't, I don't know exactly where they're moving. I gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, I mean,

Hamish: it'd be great to see more retail there.

Osman: Like, uh, a King Soopers or something would go really well for North Boulder in that area, but. I mean, that's the problem with North Boulder is it doesn't have a big grocery. Exactly, yeah. I'm sure Ideal does not want it to turn into a big grocery. No, they do not. Or, um, Lucky's. Yeah. Right, or Lucky's. Okay. So I doubt it. I doubt that we're gonna get a big grocery store there. I think we are gonna get hundreds of homes. We'll find out. Hundreds of townhomes and mostly condos. Yeah. Okay. It's not even that big of a parcel.

Hamish: No, it's tiny, and it's always like you see the land, and you try to

Osman: figure, I mean- I'm having a hard time. I'm ha-. I don't wanna go crazy on this, but like. it's gonna look like maybe The Peloton. Yeah.

Hamish: Oh, I hope not. The Peloton's a bit of a

Osman: monolith to me. Like, half The Peloton. Yeah. I think that's about right. There's, like, 400 something units over there. It's a huge complex. It is. Yeah. It is a huge complex. Our fourth news item is that sellers are suing, are suing an agent over a statement the agent made that she wouldn't bother to show their listing because their listing was advertising no, well, it was an adver- well, I guess it wa- 2019 it was, it, it had no buyer's agent commission attached. And so this, this agent said they weren't gonna show it. Well, this property wasn't advertised on the MLS either. So that's what REX's business model was, is they were trying to basically do an end run around the MLS, okay? And the seller chose them, right? Yeah. I mean, that, that apparently the seller wanted REX. Um, REX has been fighting with the NAR and Zillow for a long time. Um, and, and they're claiming that this agent was organizing a boycott of the home because they had listed it in REX. So I don't. And, and the suit's in Colorado. It's in, in, uh, Colorado Springs. It's in US District Court. Yeah. Oh, okay. Um, I don't have the full background on this story, but I think it's one that we're gonna start to track because- It has some serious implications. It has some implications because

Osman: does an independent agent have the right to say, "I'm not gonna show it if I don't get paid"? Like, if you want me to go look at a house, I this is also why there's buyer agency agreements that say if the seller's not willing to pay a commission, the buyer's agent, the buyer will. And it's not a surprise to the buyer because they're signing a contract that says what the commissions are, at least today. Yeah. Back in 2019, I'm not sure that was the case. So I'm curious about, about what the legs are, like, what are the merits of this case? Uh, but it's one to watch. Let me see if I can get a little more info- But also, like, I mean-. while we're hanging out. Um. when

Hamish: a listing contract, generally, um, home will be advertised on the following platforms, MLS, listing syndication, all these things are within the contract, and you duke that out with your seller. Um, I mean, it's against our MLS rules to advertise the compensation on the MLS. Now- I have a feeling that-. this is

Osman: a 2019 listing. Right, yeah. That was seven years ago. But I almost have,

Hamish: like, an inkling that it's, like, I mean, do you check in on REX listings to see if there's anything listed on.

Osman: Right. Because the vast majority of sales are still on the MLS. Right. Um, we do occasionally check Compass's- Secret. app- Quote, unquote. because all you need is their app, and you can see their listings to see what's not on the MLS. Yeah. Usually there's, like, one or two in the city of Boulder. It's not a big number. Um, but they advertise the hell out

Hamish: of it. They really want you to believe that there's a secret

Osman: pocket listing network- They really want you to believe. inside Compass. I don't think that's true here. Um, and that's my opinion. Compass, please don't come, come after me, but that's my opinion, is I don't think, I think it's marketing fluff. Yeah. Um, if you really wanna sell your house for the most amount of money, you expose it to the most amount of buyers, which means put it on the MLS. And you, if you don't wanna pay full commissions, there are discount agents that will gladly take your and you, and they're, you, you don't have to agree to pay buyer's agent's commissions if you don't want to. It'll be a difficult deal. Okay, so- And that's down to the buyer's agent's- Let me read-. listing or buyer's agreement. let me, yeah, absolutely. Let me read this little summary from AI on what this deal is, 'cause I, we just- Yeah, please. do not have enough information. So they filed this complaint on October 12th. This is recent. Yep. And they're a military couple. They hired REX to sell their home in the Springs, and that's when the seller was transferred to an Air Force base in Nevada. After the listing went up, Young called REX, and REX recorded the call and later released it in March 2021 as evidence of agent steering.

Osman: On the call, the REX rep explained that sellers weren't obligated to pay a buyer's agent commission. Young replied that she won't bother to show it, then asked whose REX, who, who and then asked who REX's local agent was so she could tell other agents not to work with them. The complaint reads, her remarks as suggesting the REX agent didn't need to tell the homeowners, to which the REX agent allegedly replied that this wouldn't be in their best interest. So the the Andersons say they didn't know agents had refused to show their home or that REX had kept it from them until a Wall Street Journal reporter with the recording called them in October 2023. They claim reduced exposure, fewer showings, weaker bargaining leverage, delay, and economic loss, including a slower sale, while they carried a mortgage on the Colorado house and rent in Nevada at the same time. And the defendants, is that there, it's a violation of the federal Sherman Antitrust Act and the Colorado Antitrust Act, and it's being framed as a group boycott and concerted refusal to deal. And against REX only, there's a breach of fiduciary duty and a breach of contract. Theory is that by withholding information from its client, REX contributed to the alleged conspiracy. They also argue

Osman: the conduct is inconsistent with Articles 1, 3, 15, and 16 of the NAR Code of Ethics and the broader market harm they claim is the refusal to show non-traditional listings cut sellers off from a material segment of qualified buyers and narrowed housing options for transferred military buyers. Boy, you know, it's,

Hamish: it's like. Yeah, this is a tough one to. I, I. this is a tough one to get into-

Osman: Yeah. because I don't want a lawsuit claiming that we steer things, but I, what I do encourage people to think about is what your goal is. And if you're trying to. If you hate brokers so much that you don't wanna pay a commission, um, you can still list your home with a qualified listing agent and- Or a lawyer. you could tell them, or you could have a lawyer do this as well. Tell the listing agent, "I'm not paying a buyer's agent commission." Put that into the listing agreement, and if you get an offer that has a buyer's agent commission in it, which is today's practice, right? I'm not gonna comment on the, on the merits of this lawsuit. Right. But in today's practice, if you get an offer that says your, that the buyer's agent demands 2.5% you can counter back that you're not paying it. Yep. And then the buyer's probably gonna say, "Then we're not paying that number." And they- "We're gonna pay less than that number and then we'll pay the agent." And this is what I told all the FSBO, like, uh, um, my clients for many years, that if you want us to pursue a FSBO where there's not an established commission to the, us as the agent I'll gladly write the offer, and we'll we'll, we'll do. Ultimately, the buyers are paying the commission. At the

Osman: end of the day. At the end of the day. Yeah. That's where the money's coming from. It's not the seller. Yeah. So the, the contracts today are much clearer than they were in 2019. Um, and and so it's really easy to, to negotiate this. Don't be afraid to negotiate with FSBOs. We'll work it out, but ultimately the price is gonna reflect the commissions that the buyer's agent has agreed to be, and the buyers have agreed to pay. So I think it's, it's interesting, and I. The whole idea that you're steering buyers away from listings that don't have commissions today is nonsense, because we don't even know what the commissions are. Yeah. Like, when we schedule a showing, I have no idea what the commissions are. Yeah. But what in practice occurs is that well-established agents that control the market, that do most of the work and the business in this market typically list at reasonable commissions and what you would expect it to be. Yep. And if it's not what you expect it to be, they would call you before you write the offer to say, "Hold on, Osman. My seller does not wanna pay commissions because they hate real estate agents. They hate me, too. They hate all agents, and so they've said no commissions." And I'll say, "Okay, thanks for that info."

Osman: Yeah. "We'll write the offer accordingly." That's why, like, hearing the word steering,

Hamish: to me, think, I, I think, like, Fair Housing

Osman: Act. And then I'm like, okay, well, that's usually, like, discrimination, like,

Hamish: race, you know, that kind of thing. This is on the basis of agent compensation. So I mean,

Osman: just them using that word has me, like, a little bit like, "Ugh." Well, they're using the word steering, but the actual claims of the case are on the Sherman Antitrust Act. Exactly.

Hamish: Um, so anyhow, but also, uh, yeah, like you said, buyer's agents have a buyer's agreement or buyer's agency agreement with their buyers.

Osman: In Colorado, anyway. In Colorado, yes.

Hamish: Uh, in, yeah, to what we're speaking to, and there are boxes there to figure out if the seller is not paying commission to the buyer's agent and how that. It, it's predetermined. So if you come to find that you are

Osman: at- Not pre. What, what do you mean by it's predetermined? How the buyer's agent is getting paid within the buyer agency. Yeah. If they have a buyer agency agreement, the buyer has agreed to pay or not. They've agreed. It, it's specified how the buyer's agent's getting paid in that exclusive listing agreement. Yeah. Yes. Uh,

Hamish: yeah. So it's been determined, right? Okay. I just wanted- Yeah. No, it is-

Osman: . to be clear about how it's been determined, because that sounds like very- Within the buyer agency. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right.

Hamish: So anyway, um, if the buyer's like, "Yeah, no, I'm, I, I can't pay commission," and the seller's not paying commission, like, we're not doing it, uh, would you, would you attack the buyer for steering their agent or in a weird reverse way? But yeah, I mean, we'll see how this plays out. Like you said, with the NAR settlement, uh, we are going in blind on the houses as far as how commission is worked out and that-

Osman: Well, we just-. the conversation is had during the offer process. Well, we know what our commission's gonna be. Right. Because our buyer has agreed to that. That's why we have an exclusive agreement with them. That's, we, we are required to have that. We know what we're getting paid. Um, and it's just unknown what the listing agent has agreed and what the seller has agreed. Um, but the vast majority of them are the same as they've always been. It's rare when it's not. And in some cases, it's more. Like this deal that we just closed on, uh. Did I mention this any further? That one of the deals we just closed had a 3% listing agent commission and had a 595 transaction fee. Wow. And this was an agent that frankly I didn't think did such a great job. That's impressive. And they earned more than we did. Yeah. And the, and the brokerage dumped this transaction fee on there, which I think, I think is, we don't do those transaction fees. That's a topic on its own, yeah. But I'm starting to wonder, maybe we should. Everyone else is. Yeah. And there is administrative costs that we are not fully recovering on some transactions. So it might be something that we need to do in the future, and it's also, it's this

Osman: is the shady thing I don't like about the real estate business, is some of these fees are not disclosed to the buyer or seller till almost the finish line. Yeah. And then they're looking at the settlement statement and they're like, "What's this $600 fee?" "Oh, well, that's an admin fee for our office. Every deal charges it." Yeah. "Sorry, we have to charge it." And you're like, "What office?" But if you don't close at that point if you say, "I'm walking from this deal because you're, you're sticking me with additional fees," who payers, bears the cost? You lose your earnest money. You could be out of, by the time you see the settlement statement, you could be out of contingencies in the contract.

Hamish: Isn't that. Yeah, that's completely missed.

Osman: Like, 100%, even if you're upset by that the your agent's gonna say, "Boy, that's just my office policy. All offices charge admin fees," which is not true. But that's what they're probably gonna say. And you're gonna say, "It's office policy. Don't blame me. Don't be angry at me for this-" And you have no exit. "$600 fee." Yeah. And what are you gonna do, not close over 600 bucks at that point?

Hamish: Yep. Predatory.

Osman: I didn't say it. You did say predatory. I don't know what I was talking about. I think it's, I think it's unethical. Yeah, unethical. And that's why we don't have the fee. But everyone else seems to be charging this fee, and I see it in almost every single settlement statement. Yeah, that's ridiculous. So that's one of the questions you should ask your agent before you choose them, is, "What are the additional fees outside of the commission I'm gonna be paying? At closing, do you charge an admin fee, and if so, what is it?" "And what do I get for that admin fee that I wouldn't otherwise get?" Yeah.

Hamish: Okay. Admin of what? Doing your job? I mean, it's

Osman: paperwork, Hamish, for sure. Yeah. Like, we have compliance costs. You go through every closing checklist. That takes time. That's also your job. I know. That's also your job. Well, but like- I hear you. I'm with you, Hamish. Yeah, yeah. That's your job. That's part of the job. Yeah. It's sort of like- So you're charging me more? Anyway, yeah. like, it's sort of like you go to the, you know, you go to the automotive repair shop and they charge you labor, but then they've also tacked on like, fees for, like, supplies. Oh, yeah. Like, hold on. Fluids fee or- Aren't supplies part of the job? disposal fee. Yeah. like, additional fees they've snuck in there that you know, it's just the, the nature of our world today. Um, okay, let's move on to the next story. Sundance is coming fast, and Boulder now has 1,800 licensees, 1,850 licensees, beating the goal of 1,500 licensees several months early. Airbnb searches are up 500%, supposedly according to Axios, and you're typically looking at $250 to $300 a night for a one-bedroom and $1,100 to $1,400 a night for a four-bedroom, but I don't think that's for the city of Boulder. I think those numbers are actually low for the city of Boulder. Four-bedroom at, at 1,400 a month, but I don't, I'm

Osman: not gonna claim the data is accurate. Yeah, that's actually half bad. It just, pricing is lower than I would've expected. Yeah. So, 'cause our client is looking at. We have a client who just sent us one in Lafayette, and his is 1,400 for three nights. Or four nights, so that's- And that's Lafayette. and that's a four-bedroom, but that, this is per night, so it could quite be possible that they're charging $1,400 a night for a four-bedroom. That's possible. But dang, yeah, I mean, if you're in the, the festival lodging base as a, uh, investor, you have some competition right now. Don't forget, Boulder gets to dip its beak. Yeah. All right. Um, the Aspen fire, I, I think it's interesting that they finally disclosed what was the cause of this fire. You guessed it. Aspen Acres fire, and it was a, you know, it was a falling aspen on a power line, and I could tell you that, um, Boulder Excel has been on a tear with Right Tree Service having a whole fleet of new trucks, I would guess hundreds of hires. And they've been logging the heck out of the woods. Yeah. Like, all the power lines have been cleaned up. Good. But, uh, absolutely. Yeah. So for climate resiliency and reducing wildfire risk, I'm glad to see it.

Osman: I'm living in the mountains myself, but it, it's interesting to see the, how long it takes for the actual confirmation. Like, this fire, the Aspen Acres fire, was what? June? So it took multiple months before they finally disclosed what caused it. And there was a fire, the Turkey Run, Turkey Trot. Oh, gosh. Oh, right by you, Turkey Mountain? Right by me. It was only, like, an acre. Yeah. Um, but it had happened after a heavy storm. Yep. And the owner saw this tree leaning on the power lines and said, "It ain't right. Something ain't right. W- I don't have power, and there's a tree leaning on my power lines." And Excel kept saying, "The power's back on, man." Well, yeah, the power's back on, and guess what it did? It found a path to ground which was right through that tree, in the sap in that tree, and set the whole front yard on fire- Geez. and almost set our house on fire. Yeah. This was last- I remember that. autumn, like October, November, something like that. It was pretty darn scary. That was close, dude. Yeah. That was very close to our house. Um so anyway, power lines and trees, um-

Hamish: There's a debate here about rates and insurance and

Osman: yada, yada, yada. well, is the market properly pricing it in? And I, I think that buyers have a tendency to forget, but a really good agent should be talking to you about higher insurance costs and also defensibility, and that's one of the reasons why newer homes are worth a lot more than these old clunkers from the '70s that are, like- Log cabins. surrounded by. Well, it's not, it's log cabins, it's, it's, um, it, easy access for embers through their ventilation, um, and also not hardened around the property at all for, not mitigated for wildfire risk at all, and that has huge impacts on valuation. I mean- Or it should have a huge impact. for the longest time,

Hamish: nestled in the pines is, like, the picturesque mountain property, right? Log cabin

Osman: nestled in the pines. Yeah, like Swiss Family Robinson from the '70s or '80s, the TV show that was, like, romantic. Yeah. But that's also, I think, when we didn't have climate change driving wildfires. Yeah,

Hamish: these monsters. Offbeat stuff. All right.

Osman: Offbeat stuff is sort of a new idea, and it's a couple of things that I thought were just kinda fun. And there's a new sports bar called The Werks opening up on October 26th, and it is a bike shop. It's a bowling alley. Oh. It's a sports bar. It's at 3390 Valmont, and, uh, and maybe could fill the, the gap in weird bars that was left by The Dark Horse.

Hamish: There's definitely a hole. There's a- So

Osman: Well, there's a void. a void, yeah. There's a market gap, and there's certainly an opportunity for fun, weird, quirky bars, and I think we'll need to go check this out. October 26th is the opening, and, uh, I probably won't get there until November.

Hamish: Yep. Maybe we do a team thing there or

Osman: something. Oh, that would be fun. Yeah. We could go bowling and get our bikes fixed at the same time. Actually have a bike to bring, so yeah. Oh- I put this next one on here for you, Hamish, because it's all about CPW.

Hamish: Yeah, we, uh, what is it, like, axed this one two weeks ago, so I'm glad it's coming back, is, uh, if you carved your pumpkins, which I did, uh, don't leave them on your front door, which I also did. Um, Colorado Parks and Wildlife is urging, uh, people, I think especially on the urban wildlife interface, to not leave their decorative Halloween pumpkins, actual pumpkins, out on the front. Um, it is the, uh- Wildlife-urban interface, so black bears, foxes, I mean, mountain lion. Anything, uh, that lives in the woods could

Osman: very much fancy a snack, um, front lawn, and, um, that's not an interaction I think anybody's necessarily looking forward to. So maybe a little PSA there. All right, and this last little piece is about AI now invading the um, the city of Boulder Invading. Well, I don't know, taking over the role of dispatch um, for non-emergency calls. So if you call the if you call the police department, um, or, or the fire department, I believe, rather than getting a real human or a, or a menu, this is the non-emergency line. Rather than getting a menu, like a telephone tree, you are now gonna get Ashley, who is AI, and, uh, will route your call accordingly. Um, it's, it's sort of, it's sort of to be seen how this plays out. Um, but we just gave all the staff a 5% raise, so. And now we're getting Ashley. That doesn't sit- 4%. 4%. Or a little with police, you're right. 5. 5% for police and fire. Yeah. And I, I, I'd really like to see not Ashley. I'd like to see a human being pick up the phone, but that's just, that's just life, I guess. Yeah. Uh, yeah.

Hamish: I mean, it's the non-emergency line. Um, oh, no, it just got hit by a pay-

Osman: Oh, it's back. Okay. Um,

Hamish: there was something to be said. It was, uh,

Osman: making mention that this will help dispatchers deal with real emergencies. And I'm like, "Okay, fair," but this is the non-emergency line. I suppose it leaves more human

Hamish: power for actual emergencies. I just hope Ashley is up to date on fire code because I can't get, uh, the current fire restrictions to save my life for Westminster. And I mean, yeah, this is Boulder, but, um, I have to call the non-emergency line every time 'cause their website is very outdated. So.

Osman: Sometimes you gotta pick up the phone.

Hamish: Yeah. I wanna light my fire pit, and I don't wanna be the worst neighbor in town. I get solicitations multiple

Osman: times a day for selling House Einstein or raising capital. "Do you need money for investment?" Every day, I'm getting these messages. Yeah. "Or do you have, um, a wholesale deal for us? Do you know a widow or an orphan who's desperate to sell their house-. and doesn't want fair value and wants cash now? We'll give you 40% of the house's value today." Yeah. I get those messages all the time, and they're really frustrating. But if it was a human that picked up the phone and said, "Hey, Osman. I know a few things about your business, and I love your strategy. Here's what I really like," and it actually was real, "I'd love to schedule a call with you to talk about how we could collaborate. I see opportunities. I'm not trying to sell you something. I'm a real human being" "with a real idea that could be beneficial to you." You know what? I'm probably gonna call them back. But if it's this AI-generated text nonsense that I'm getting multiple times a day, it's going to immediately block and, and click spam and and hopefully doing my part to reduce these people from having this capability of harassing us. And I now have enabled AI screening on my phone, if you didn't notice. I was just about to say. No, I haven't. I- I have done it twice. I don't think

Osman: I've been declined by you. If AI has been. I, I'm now using AI to screen my calls, so I'm not gonna complain about Ashley. I have a generic Google-. screener on my calls 'cause it's just too. And but if it's a real human calling, it will notify me and let a call through. You know, I got, um,

Hamish: it's topical because I had to, had to, I, I did not get allowed past an AI screening yesterday calling an agent for feedback, and they, you know, "Well, leave your name and reason for calling," and I said, "Hamish Crabb Real Estate."

Osman: Well, she,

Hamish: she called back and she said, "Huge Crab

Osman: Real Estate." And so I'm like, okay, now when I hit these AI assistants, I gotta hit them with a fake name

Hamish: like, you know, Mike Smith.

Osman: Right. Like, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Well, I, I don't know what they're doing, what they're doing to my name. I see husband- Oh, yeah, your husband or- Whenever I'm, uh, whenever s-. boss man or, you know? Ugh. All right. So I think that's it for this week's pod other than the carve-outs, Hamish. Yeah. So let's get after it. Let's- Tell me about your bread baking. I'm baking bread. I'm not breaking

Hamish: it quite yet, but that might be the next in the, the sequence or sequel, uh, to my carve-out. Yeah. I, um. Yeah, have you had Marmite

Osman: before or Vegemite? I've heard of it. Yeah, it's like a- I think I may have tasted it when I was in Australia and grossed out by it. Yeah. It's, it's apparently called,

Hamish: it's yeast extract which means even less to me than

Osman: the name of the spread. But, um,

Hamish: three separate occasions now I've had, like, people in the last week ask about it and wanting to try it, like my roommate, uh, my girlfriend,

Osman: and my neighbor. And I don't buy loaves of bread because I don't eat it as fast as it goes off or it goes moldy, and I was like, "You know, we just made-" You know you could freeze bread, right? Okay.

Hamish: That's actually a really good point. And-. I wish I knew that like, duh. Why are you not

Osman: freezing? Why are you not freezing? And I'm freezing bagels and, like, thawing those out. Okay. All right.

Hamish: Okay. But why did I not even think to freeze bread? I don't know.

Osman: That's really funny. Well, now I'm making it. So, uh, like, couple years back, I've had this. I got this, uh, bread machine at a flea market for 10 bucks. Oh. And, like, I mean, I've got flour, I've got all the things, so. Okay. And now it's homemade loafs every week. That's cool. Yeah. That's fun. It's really easy, right? Does Taylor like it?

Hamish: Uh, she hasn't had the first batch yet. I made it last night. Oh. Um, it takes four hours, but I'm there at 6:30, and I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I'll just chuck all the things in and, you know, I'll have bread here in two hours or something." Did you share

Osman: it with your housemate?

Hamish: No? No. She was like, "Man, I could smell it all night, and I really wanted to go up for a s-" ) That's

Osman: one of the things is the smell. That's true. Yeah. Baked bread is magical.

Hamish: Oh, it's insane. So- Feel bad for the gluten-free people.

Osman: I'm sorry, gluten-free people. Yeah. Although you can make gluten-free bread, it's just not as good. Not the same. Yeah. That's a consideration, that I'm not gonna be able to hit the gluten-free market in my household or neighborhood. But, um, yeah,

Hamish: just gluten-free bread. I have yet to have it with Marmite. Um, so I'll probably try that out tonight and see how it toasts as well. So. But yeah, you know, homemade bread, dude, it smells so good.

Osman: It does. Yeah. Right? Amazing. We had homemade bread the other night at our house. Um, our neighbor brought it over, and I don't normally eat bread, but it was there, and I'm like, my God, it was so good. Yeah. Especially with the stew we made, it was just the perfect thing to dip it in.

Hamish: Gosh, yeah, there's something with the doughy, the yeast or

Osman: something. He made these two little loafs. It was just magical. Yep. Yeah. We made a little garlic bread, too, over the weekend. Nice. All sorts, but that's the- So, you're so domestic. I am super domestic. Yeah. All right. That's excellent. Yeah, and then we're going to the pumpkin patch in, in- I know. so, yeah. You just need some kids to drag around and take to pumpkin patches. I can see that. See your future, Hamish. Don't, don't- I see your future. 10 years

Hamish: minimum until that stuff. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Osman: Okay. Um, so my carve-out, I attended a memorial for a good friend this past weekend. He passed away a couple of months ago. And, uh, this was, uh, his name, his name was Bill Buffum, and he, um, he passed away after over 20 years of battle with prostate cancer, and he was an active runner and an organizer of all sorts of interesting running and sailing groups of people, and that's how I got to know him, was originally through running, and then eventually took a sailing trip with him. I've known him since 2000, I don't know, '6, '7, '10, uh, something like that, since I think they moved to Colorado roughly around that time. Wow. And it just was such a poignant and beautiful memorial service, and, uh, groups of sailing friends and running friends and other friends and family were all there. And, um, it, the thing that I'm bringing up as a carve out is that it just struck me, and, and my wife and I were talking about this, that this was just such a kind human. And, um, and the impact this human had on other people's lives seemed subtle, but really wasn't. Like, this is, this person was. I never saw him or heard him say a critical word about another human being. And, uh, when I was first starting to run, he was much faster than me. And I remember he would literally

Osman: turn around and run back. Like, like he, like he would join people and run, and then turn around and run back to catch up with other people and chat with them, and he was so about generating comm- Like, this is a quiet generation of community that this human did over many years, and just did it out of joy. Um, and it was such a special experience to be there with his friends and family to honor his passing, and it was a really nice it was a perfect day for it. Nice. Um, but it definitely caused me to reflect on the, the amount of impact. You know, people get really wound up around the billionaires and their impact on everyone's lives, but really I think when it comes to our, our bandwidth of life, it's the subtle relationships that have the greatest impact. It's like the impact that we have as, as individuals on each other at House Einstein, the impact we have on our, on our clients, um, and it builds a form of community that's resilient and meaningful. It creates meaning out of life. Yeah. And we get really wound up at what the billionaires are doing, but it, I think in, in reality, it's the impact of the quiet, reserved, kind individuals that is much greater order of magnitude greater than the impact of the billionaire

Osman: on what they're spending in politics or not spending in politics. And it's so easy to get fixated on negative news, and fixated on all sorts of things, and overlook the way that humans come together in community, and people like Bill that bring humans together in a way that's just so positive and warm and kind. And so I, I don't know, I just. It was like a good. I, I, I, I like going to memorials. Um, I think it's important to show up for your friends and your family and, uh, for your community, to be there in moments of, of joy and moments of grief. Um, but it's sometimes these moments of grief that result in better living and better choices. So I've been reflecting a lot about that memorial and about Bill Buffum and the impact he had, and Leah and I both agreed that if he had not been a core organizer of our running group, we probably wouldn't be runners today. Yeah. Not in the way that we run. Like, we are both. In fact, one of the things I'd like to do after this podcast is over, is go for a run. Yeah. I'll be negotiating-. on a deal instead, and hopefully I still get some sunlight by the time I'm done with the contracts that need to be written. But I have my stuff in the car to go run, and it wouldn't. If it wasn't for

Osman: Bill, I probably would not be running as much as I've brit- I've run over the years. Yeah. And I wouldn't have this huge network of people that I'm friends with if it wasn't for this, this human. I don't know. Cherish your friends. Local impact. But it's not always the big mouth, brash, over-the-top person that's actually the center of community. Sometimes it's the quiet one, it's the gentle one, it's the kind person that has

Hamish: greater impact. Yeah. I've been to very few memorials, um, fortunately, unfortunately, but it is always incredibly touching to see the amount of people that one person was able to connect to and, and

Osman: have the, an impact on, you know? And it's. That brings me to the whole like what six degrees of separation, and kind of everybody through their actions and through their impacts kind of it echoes around. Um,

Hamish: like better to smile to strangers type of thing, so.

Osman: Weddings and funerals um, and some religious traditions like bar mitzvahs and bat mitzvahs I think are really important to go to if you can afford it. And if, uh, and if the opportunity is of value to go, I think it's really vital to go, particularly when it's not your loved one that passed. Because honestly, I I, I don't know if you would, like one would know how to conduct themselves at an event when it's actually your loved one that passed. Like, what do you even how do you even get through that if it's your family member or a close friend? I think it's, um, important to go to all of these and, uh, and I was grateful for the opportunity to be friends with Bill. Yeah. Um, and share that with you guys today on the pod. Thanks for doing that. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the end of this week's House Einstein podcast. If you've made it this far, thank you for joining us. We deeply appreciate your listening and viewing online, your comments, feedback. Of course, subscribing helps us. Sharing it with your friends helps us too. We deeply appreciate that. If you like this content, you can also find us at HouseEinstein.com. You'll find our socials, uh, on Instagram, Facebook, X, Blue Sky, LinkedIn, TikTok, all

Osman: the places. You will find all sorts of fun and interesting content, and, uh, we'll catch you next time.