Mortgage Rates Jump, Showings Get Blocked, Luxury Condos Sit

House Einstein Podcast #132 Transcript

AI, Premiere Pro, and RSS.com were used in the creation of this transcript. There may be errors, please excuse them.

Osman: The Boulder Noise Map. Every police noise call in Boulder since January 2023 from the city's open data feed, 9,011 calls placed at the 100 block the dispatcher recorded, plus one address that produced 950 calls from a single dispute, shown only when you ask for it. Explore your block. The dashed line is a 15-minute walk from the CU campus. 70% of the city's complaints fall inside it.

Osman: And that is from the Quiet Enjoyment Project, and we'll put the link to the map in the show notes. And with that, welcome to the House Einstein Podcast. This is podcast 132. I'm Osman Parvez. With me is Hamish Crabb.

Hamish: Hello, hello. Hopefully, uh, we don't get any noise complaints during the recording of this podcast. I'm doubtful, but you never know.

Osman: Well, I… Probably not, but h- hopefully they would knock on the door before they, uh, file a complaint with the police to come, you know, interrupt our recording. But that's not the type of noise I think people are complaining about. So basically, here's what happened.

Osman: In 2025, after three years of documented escalation of neighborhood noise, University Hill residents formed this organization, and it's not quite a 501 (c) (3) yet, although it appears they are working on that. And their mission, according to their website, is to restore residential quality of life in Boulder, i- in Boulder neighborhoods affected by recurrent excessive noise through public data, education, voluntary compliance, and public interest enforcement of existing law.

Osman: The name's a legal term. Every lease in every home in Colorado carries a right to quiet enjoyment, and Boulder's own code makes disrupting the quiet enjoyment of a home an offense, and that is, of course, Boulder Revised Code 595. And so how do these guys work? Yeah, how do, how do these guys work? They data first.

Hamish: No. I know that one well. Yeah.

Osman: Uh, every… Our reports are built from pl- Boulder police records and the city's open data portal. Everyone gets the same rules, and escalation, not ambush. So they would like to see corrections, um, and they are not publishing… Uh, they're, they're publishing conduct, not people. And they say that court's their last step. But honestly, I don't blame them. And from a real estate perspective…

Osman: Well, let me say that. Let me back up. I say I don't just not blame them. I really appreciate their approach. Like, they're not trying to shame people. They're just trying to have quality of life restored in certain Boulder neighborhoods where noise complaints have been on the rise, and frequently, those noise complaints are related to CU students partying.

Osman: And so, you know, I often joke that we at House Einstein, when we take on rentals that have students in them, we are ushering those students into adulthood. We are, we're helping them along the primrose path to starting to take greater responsibility. So I really like how these guys are approaching it. And from a due diligence perspective, this is a really nice resource to, if you're, like say you're looking to buy a house in the city, you can look up where the noise complaints are relative to the home you're thinking about buying, and do some due diligence on whether those noise complaints have been resolved or are, are de-escalating or if they're continuing to be a problem. And one particular house, or well, it's not really a house, it's, it's a development on 19th Street and the north part of town, Violet and 19th, there's a, a manufactured housing park, a mobile home park, and that's where the 950 noise complaints, in more than 10% of noise complaints have occurred, which is surprisingly… You know, that's not even that

Hamish: 10%, Right, of all calls?

Osman: Far from our office. I've never heard noise there, but we're also not here at night.

Osman: And so that's probably not CU related, interestingly enough, because it's too far away from CU. I really like that they have a 15-minute map, like a line to show you where the 15-minute map, uh- Walkable walkable, yeah, the 15-minute walkability is. That's fantastic.

Hamish: Walking distance, yeah, from CU.

Osman: So we wanted to open with that because we love resources like this, and I particularly like seeing neighbors get organized to try to take on a problem that, frankly, the city government a- and the police department are failing to resolve adequately.

Hamish: Yeah, and I imagine the source of this is you've shared before that, like, Boulder Crime Map, and that displays a heat map of noise complaints. So I'm sure they kinda just aggregated the data and put it into a, a website here, which is pretty wicked. One of the things that kinda stands out to me about this mobile home park is the, uh, location for all the calls. I wonder if it kinda falls under an umbrella of a location. Like, it could be anywhere within the mobile home park.

Osman: Uh, that's what they did. They chose the sales office. Yeah. So that's, so that's, uh, interesting that they didn't pinpoint it down to the actual house.

Osman: Yeah. But in other cases, you can… Well, you can get within, it's the 100 block, right?

Hamish: I mean, 9th Street is a great one to see. Um, we talk a lot about, like, Chautauqua and then, and the noise, uh, as you move, uh, further from the hill to the mountains, uh, you get less college students. And if you go onto 9th Street, you can see kind of a string of noise complaints. And then anything past that, it's, it's, I mean, markedly less.

Osman: Yeah.

Osman: It, it's nice to see that validated because we've told our clients many times that if you're west of 9th Street, it's probably not an issue. Um, and here you can see the data where the noise complaints are concentrated, and for sure, it's, it's east of 9th Street.

Hamish: Yeah. I know.

Hamish: This website has, uh, the addresses. Some of the, like, um, what is it? Largest offenders listed, and, uh, of course, it's frats and sororities. Yeah.

Osman: Of, yeah, the fraternity and the sororities are the largest offenders. And, and for, and they, you know, I like that, that, um, you know, that little… If you look at the website, and, and people should go visit it, the watchlist on I… If you click on I own property, you can see the current watchlist, and you can see the homes that have, are off the list, uh, which is, you know, they're green-lighting them off the list. That's great. And then you see the up sharply- tag for Gamma Kappa Sigma Nu, who is the owner of record for 1043 Pleasant Street.

Osman: That is apparently, uh, a, a cause for a lot of complaints this year. 13 so far in 2026, and 23 in the prior three years. So they're up sharply. They are on the naughty list, uh, so to speak.

Osman: Um, and well, I mean, uh, it's, uh, it… You know, you… There is this feeling that, hey, you moved into a college town, what did you expect? But I also feel like agents do a really lousy job of warning their clients that this could potentially be an issue for quality of life and enjoyment here, um, for your family, that you… And that's why we've had those videos on due diligence for the red cup district, the red cup check, uh, to, to go walk into the, uh, alley and open the recycle bin and see what it looks like.

Hamish: Genuinely.

Osman: Because if it's full of red cups, you know who your neighbors are.

Hamish: Yeah, you've got an idea. Or cans or, you know, anything. Yeah.

Osman: Or, yeah, or hard liquor bottles. But although today kids are not drinking as much as they used to, for sure they still are. So…

Hamish: I guess in CU too, looking at the, the trend for these sororities and the complaints. But, um, you know, like big picture, I'd love to see something like this that gets… It's great that it includes, um, police noise complaint calls, but I'd love, I mean, like some sort of ambient noise detection system, right?

Osman: Right. Right.

Osman: Ambient noise metering for the whole city. Well, I'm surprised you say that. You're so anti-flock and now you're okay with…

Hamish: You, you can meter noise without recording audio, you know?

Osman: Oh. Well, you've heard of the gunshot, right? The gunshot alerts that have been falsely triggered, and people get effectively self-SWATed by a loud noise that the microphone supposedly in the neighborhood heard.

Osman: Um, yeah. I mean, there's lots of privacy concerns with that sort of stuff. But I, I'm really appreciative of this, and I think we should jump into our docket for the day, um, starting with our mission. So if you're a new, if you're new to this podcast, our mission is to entertain.

Osman: We are sponsored by the House Einstein Brokerage, whose mission is to help you make a smarter real estate decision. But please don't make any th- Make any decisions on the basis of what you hear on this pod on anything of merit, particularly real estate, but frankly anything else. This podcast is entertainment and, yes, our attorneys made us tell you that. Um, we are both employed by the House Einstein Brokerage, and happily so. Uh, I've been doing this for well over 20 years, and Hamish, you've been with the company now for over four years.

Hamish: Yeah, that's right.

Osman: Yeah. And, um-

Hamish: I'll get you the exact days next week.

Osman: To the- Oh. Oh, okay. In addition to, to the week and the, and the minute, you like to count them down. Yeah. Which I find a little disturbing, but okay.

Osman: And, um, well-

Hamish: If you would like to, uh, have us as a resource for your advice in real estate, check out our sponsor, Hauseitnsein. Uh, we'd be happy to represent you and, um, have a consultation based on your needs and wants, uh, officially through the, through the brokerage.

Osman: Like- Well, I'm gonna back up on that statement a little bit, and the reason I'm gonna back up on it is the advice we were given by a past client, and I think of as an advisor now, and a friend of the pod and the brokerage, who shared with us that

Hamish: Are you? Yeah.

Osman: One of the successful approaches that a family member found was to only take projects that they had a high degree of confidence they could be successful.

Hamish: You're right.

Osman: And so that has really filtered my thinking. This past year we've had some listings that were really challenging, and had we known about those challenges when we went into it, we probably wouldn't have taken those deals because the amount of effort involved to get the deals closed was so disproportionate. One didn't close. We, we basically signed off on that listing, like, to another agent that real- that wanted it. We, we advised our client that they really had to cut the price. They didn't wanna do it, and so we told them they should find an agent that really wants to babysit this listing while they're abroad, um, because it… You can't, you can't just… We, we don't do property man-

Hamish: Been meaning to check in on that one as well.

Osman: It's still available. Yeah, it's still available. So, and the other one, boy, that was such a unique niche of a market that we stumbled into that we didn't realize how limited the buyer pool was. And even at the closing our client was like, "So would you ever take a deal like this again?"

Hamish: It's… We're due.

Osman: Because she s- they saw how little we got paid for that deal, and how much effort it took to get us to the finish line, and I had to tell her point-blank, "No."

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah.

Osman: Like, this deal was so difficult and took so many resources that the small amount of commission that we got paid wasn't worth it. So…

Hamish: Can I re-asterisk?

Osman: You can go ahead and re-asterisk.

Hamish: To see if Hauseitnsein brokerage is a good fit for you, and we are a good… No, okay.

Osman: No, I mean, that's it, right? Like, we ne- w- we need to be a good fit. Like, we're happy to have a consultation, but if it looks like your expectations of value are out of line with the market or you're not willing to do the work that it, it takes to sell this property, then we're… Or, or if you're on the buy side, you're trying to buy something that frankly just doesn't exist, right? And, and, and you're looking for a lot of time and effort tr- hunt it, hunting. Like back in the day, this is, you know, in… Before the bidding wars really got started in 2000 whatever, '10, '11, I took on a client that ha- wanted a unicorn.

Hamish: I was like, "Reach out," you know, like, "See if we fit."

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah.

Osman: And they, and I, I suggested a couple of strategies that we could potentially find it off-market, and they agreed to those, and then we went under a b- a short-term buyer agency with them and the m- and the probability of success was Hail Marys, right? Like, we're shoot- we're throwing Hail Marys, and I counted on the demonstration of professionalism and effort to be the, such, so high that they would wanna continue to work with us, and it turned out that they really didn't.

Hamish: They didn't see it or they didn't value it or… Yeah. Recognize it?

Osman: Like, they didn't- They were- Well, they didn't really… They didn't value the efforts put in at all, and they were really, um, um, ag- agno- antagonistic towards real estate agents. Like, they really had a negative attitude towards all real estate agents, and I had no idea this was underlying it. Right. But there were red flags in when we, when we structured our buyer agency agreement. The, the stuff they wanted in there was a little weird and off-putting, but I ignored it because I thought, "Well, you know, we'll establish a working relationship. You'll see how good we are and we'll just stick it out." And it turned out to not be the case at all.

Hamish: Man.

Hamish: Oh, awesome.

Hamish: Client's client.

Osman: And, um, yeah, uh, that'll be a story for another time 'cause I don't wanna end up in litigious land with these people 'cause they are still here. But boy, I was glad to say goodbye at the end and, uh, and lesson learned, but it was, it was a pricey one. So anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that we need to evaluate success, and on the buy side, that means, um, look, it, that means a realistic plan and approach for us to be successful in the price range and locations you're looking for, and we're happy to do the work. And on the sell side, it means, okay, realistic pricing. Are you willing to help us do the work in preparing this property? Like, we will guide you, but you have to be the one that actually writes the checks to the contractors, right? Like, y- we will help you each step of the way. We'll open up our Rolodex, but pretend that it's 2020 and you could just throw any piece of junk on

Hamish: Good point.

Osman: The market and it will sell is not a strategy. Right. Right? Like, that's a strategy for misery, and some of those agents will take those listings hoping that, you know, after a few months you'll come to terms with reality, and I'm just, I'm just not willing to do that anymore. It's a huge waste of time to take on listings.

Hamish: You've got work to do. Right.

Hamish: Massive effort. It's emotional drain too. Like all sorts, yeah.

Osman: Oh, it's hugely negative. There's a… I mean, uh, there… So the high end right now is saturated with listings, and the percentage under contract is, is single digit, low single digit.

Osman: And there's a few agents that tend to have a lot of these listings, and I can't imagine what their life is like constantly dealing with disappointed sellers and nothing happening.

Osman: Like, uh, like no showings this week.

Hamish: Or the, the stories they must be spinning to keep them happy or something, you know?

Osman: I mean, how many broker opens are you gonna have where you're, you're, you know, inebriating your colleagues and, and having, like, curated lunches? Like, how many of those are you gonna have and, and pretend like that's somehow doing something to sell this house? I think that, uh, it, it, it's, it's super interesting what's behind the scenes in this industry, and that's one of the reasons we have the podcast is to share those stories.

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah. Where nothing's selling.

Osman: Um.

Hamish: So that's our disclaimer.

Osman: That's the disclaimer. Okay, so that was our disclaimer. Normally, our disclaimer's really short. Um, but if you're interested in learning about House Einstein or would like to have a private conversation with us about your real estate situation, reach out to us at HouseEinstein.com. And with that, let's go through our docket for today. So we have a new segment, this is the second time we're doing it, called Event Horizon, and we're gonna talk about upcoming things on the Front Range, events that we think would be interesting to attend personally and that we think you might enjoy hearing about. So we're gonna cover that for the next, for the upcoming weekend and until about the middle of next week.

Osman: The Closing Table topic, we're gonna be talking even more about how, uh, about rate sensitivity, particularly in the core segment of the Boulder market, the 400 to 900,000 range, and even up to 1.5 million, which we got into pretty heavily in this week's newsletter. And I've got a ton of data on it, but I didn't wanna ov- I did not wanna overwhelm, um, in the newsletter that just went out with data. I just wanted to hit the high points. But if people really wanna see the data that are, uh, newsletter subscribers or podcast listeners, reach out and I'm more than happy to share the spreadsheets with you. It, it was a deep dive into analysis.

Hamish: Oh my gosh, yeah, plug the newsletter.

Osman: Um, in Tales from the Trenches, we're gonna talk about a recent experience trying to get showings scheduled and finding

Hamish: Uphill battle.

Osman: That the… Finding, uh, well, the… So y- yeah, we're gonna talk about, um, a, a particular situation where it was unusually challenging to get showings scheduled. We finally did. We're, we're gonna go see them this afternoon. But boy, and we're gonna go into details with, with why it was problematic and what a, maybe a better approach would be.

Hamish: I saw that today, yeah.

Osman: And then we're gonna hit our, um, market update, and in this particular case we're gonna talk about the attached luxury market. And it's a market segment where I think there is probably the most opportunities, but in one specific niche. So we're gonna go into that. And then Sales of the Week. All right, these are the addresses we're talking about: 623 Terry Street, which is in Longmont; 600 Arapahoe Avenue Unit 5; 1707 Walnut Street Unit 101; 2856 Street; 182 Ridge Road; and 182 Ridge Road, because there are two listings on two different MLSs at two different prices. I don't know what's going on with that. And then 3181 Ninth Street.

Osman: Yeah. Shameless self-promotion, we're gonna talk about our new listing at Gold Run and why it makes so much more sense than the other listings available. And then we're gonna talk about some hot takes from news stories, including Hamish, you chose this one. Yeah.

Hamish: Yeah, if you're tired of these willy-nilly, uh, power outages so-called for public safety, well, the Colorado Public Utilities Commission has a plan to try and standardize those shutoffs. Uh, Osman Nywat might be changing themselves up a bit.

Osman: Niwot's, uh, looking to incorporate, or at least there's an effort underway to incorporate the town of Niwot. Most people haven't even heard of Niwot when they move to Boulder. I typically drag people to Niwot because it's a great location

Hamish: And Jim, to be cliché.

Osman: And it's, it's a beautiful historic area and has a vibrant community and great public schools.

Osman: It's a really good alternative to, say, Table Mesa or North Boulder. You get a lot of money for your investment dollar in real estate. But it's not actually a town. It's actually unincorporated Boulder County. Well, now there's a movement to incorporate it, so we're gonna talk about that.

Osman: We're gonna talk about AI listing photos.

Hamish: That's right. I've-- This is a topic I've been thinking about for a long time.

Osman: We have, we have some things to say. Denver is scaling back its proposal to allow duplexes and triplexes citywide to only within a quarter mile of transit corridors, which matches up with state law and what Colorado is… Uh, sorry, what Boulder i- will be doing. And we've got one particular story of how this can go awry with a neighborhood up in arms in Boulder over a new duplex that is,

Hamish: Mm.

Hamish: Duplex? Are you-- Wow. Okay.

Osman: It's, it's… Well, it's in the Rose Hill neighborhood, and it is west of Ninth, so this noise map is likely gonna shift over because you now have an invasion, a like- Well, we're gonna talk about it.

Hamish: We'll have the data to watch that though now with the noise map.

Osman: We're, we're gonna talk about it. And then we've got some carve-outs. Hamish, what are you gonna talk about?

Hamish: Uh, leaf peeping and fall camping. Um, it's the season, y'all. If you don't stay to the end, that's what you need to know. Uh, get out there and go check out the leaves. They're peaking right now

Osman: And my carve out is on hatch hot peppers, which is a little hidden tradition for people that live on the Front Range that know about it.

Osman: It's a thing.

Hamish: It's something I don't know about, so I'm ready to be learned.

Osman: Yeah. I'm gonna tell you all about it.

Hamish: Perfect.

Osman: Okay. All right, great.

Hamish: Man.

Osman: Let's get into it.

Hamish: What is a, uh, exciting… I mean, shoot. Rates.

Osman: No, no, we're talking about, we're ta- You keep skipping the Event Horizons, the new segment, Hamish, the one that will, you know, helps people know what to do here in Boulder this coming week, and also gets our, you know, kinda hot take on these upcoming things.

Hamish: Oh yeah, it's Event Horizon. Man, I'm in, uh, yeah.

Hamish: Yeah, it's, uh, my muscle memory going on. So let me get the time code in if you wanna start.

Osman: Did you grow up in, like, in the United States or in New Zealand? Which portion of…

Hamish: Uh, I'd say probably most of my young adult life I was in the US.

Osman: Okay.

Osman: Do you know if New Zealand schools have homecomings?

Hamish: No, we don't. Mm-mm.

Osman: They- I don't. It's such an American thing, right? Okay.

Hamish: Yeah. We'd have balls, um, and they were more… You know, homecoming to me is so much more centered around football. But then there's, like, the traditions, right? There's, like, tailgating and, um, the band and all those things. We d- we don't have any of that.

Osman: We have-

Osman: Yeah but they're like- I- We don't- I mean, where I grew up, we had homecoming weekend, and we had a pep rally on, like, Friday, and the game was on, like, a Saturday or a Sunday. The, and it's high school, so this was not, like, a big drinking event. There were no ta- I don't remember any tailgating.

Osman: Um, of course, you know, my family weren't drinkers, but I, I definitely don't remember high school families getting boozed up before the high school game.

Osman: But I do remember it being a really exciting thing. People would get all dressed up in the school colors. Some would even paint their faces. It was, like, a big deal, and the fact they let out school for, like, a few hours, maybe an hour, maybe it wasn't a few hours, it felt like a few hours, okay, just to celebrate the football team, was, like, a big deal.

Hamish: That's pretty impressive.

Hamish: I don't remember that from mine. We did have w- we'd had, like, spirit week, where each day of the week you'd have to dress up a little bit differently to kinda build the hype for it. We did have, um, uh, the, the pep rally, but it wasn't, you didn't get out early.

Osman: Well, it's a big deal in, in this university town, and it's gotten even more of a big deal since Prime took over the football program. So it's not just one day. It's a pretty much a week of activities, including, uh, the Culture Crawl, Spirit Day.

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah.

Osman: I don't even know what half of these things are. I know that there's something that happens, the Stampede downtown with the marching band. Yeah. And that's a lot of fun, and it, the whole community gets excited, and that's happening this coming weekend. I don't think we're going to the game.

Hamish: Yep, I've been to that.

Hamish: Awesome.

Osman: Um, that's not on our agenda, but for sure we will run into these activities, 'cause we usually do, as we g- are out and about here in the city of Boulder.

Hamish: I don't even know the CU fight song. Maybe I gotta play that or, or learn it just, just to have it in the back of my mind this week, or this weekend. Um, but if you are interested, uh, the, these events, um, I mean, pretty much everything we're gonna talk about is linked in our website, uh, for this podcast, and you'll find that link in the description of these podcasts.

Osman: I, I feel like it needed a little explanation for my own deficient knowledge about homecomings and CU.

Osman: I'm not really a football fan. That's, that's my wife's thing. Like, we watch football.

Hamish: No, I'm with you, man.

Hamish: Yeah. She's into it?

Osman: She's into all sports. Like, she holds that, and I don't need to pretend to be, like, a big sports fan on all sports. Like, it just isn't my thing.

Hamish: Oh, okay.

Osman: Um, I guess when I was younger, you know, to fit in, would pretend, like, I had a favorite football team.

Hamish: Did you?

Osman: Yeah, in elementary school. Oh, okay. Conveniently, the school, you know, the team that had been winning, like, a few years earlier became my favorite team. Well, of course. Of course. Of course, right? Yeah.

Hamish: Oh, okay. Yeah.

Hamish: That's always my favorite team. Yeah.

Osman: Um, but yeah, I don't, I don't… I mean, I like going to games. It's fun to go to a game, but watching it on television has just not been my thing.

Hamish: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Hamish: I had a, um, without going too far astray, I had an ex that was r- that her family was so into hockey. And so, the freshman year, and, um, they got me on, like, fantasy hockey. I never touched it. I didn't even know how fantasy hockey works, like fantasy football or anything, but I won.

Osman: That's great.

Hamish: And they were all just so upset with me 'cause I never opened the app after they started me off on it. You know?

Osman: Oh, jeez. That's funny.

Hamish: But yeah, it's, the spirit's still there.

Osman: Well, I will say something about, I will say something about tailgating, and that is it's really popular here in, here in Boulder. And when I was part of Rotary, I've let my membership lapse in the last few years, but I was part of Rotary for many years here in Boulder. And, uh, the Rotary, Boulder Valley Rotary was my club, would have a special tailgate for football games, and it's, it's a lot of fun. It's a really good time.

Hamish: Cool.

Hamish: Yeah, it's, um, I don't know, as many events as you can have, especially when you get the t- talking about noise complaints from the students. When you have events like these, it kind of bridges that divide a bit more.

Hamish: So yeah, there's, there's a ton of stuff. It looks like, um, you know, kids are free. There's a… Everybody's welcome to all of these events and, uh…

Osman: Yeah.

Osman: Well, ex- I mean, the games aren't free. You need tickets for the game. Everything else is free, sure.

Hamish: No, you're right. Kids, kids, yeah, still have to pay for, for the… Yeah.

Osman: I'm sure. There's limited seating. Like, I don't think… I mean, maybe the tickets are sold at a d- at… I've never bought kids tickets. I mean, I know the students get discounted tickets.

Hamish: Good point. I mean, yeah.

Hamish: That's a good point. You g- you're gonna have to click, listener. Yeah. Listener, you're gonna have to check out the, the link.

Osman: Yeah, you'll have to figure that out. But, you know, one little tip, tri- trick I will give you, and that is if you don't wanna pay full fare to get in, there are frequently people that are hawking their tickets all along Folsom, and you can potentially buy tickets at, uh, assuming you don't get ripped off, you can buy tickets on the cheap.

Osman: But, and a, a good friend of mine, I mean, I've been to a few CU games with him, and that was his MO. We would go walk the line and buy tickets for, like, 20 bucks because people were desperate to get rid of them. They couldn't go to the game.

Hamish: Nice.

Hamish: I mean, that's an excellent pro tip. Just don't get scalped.

Osman: Yeah, they're probably not 20 bucks anymore. All right.

Osman: First Friday.

Osman: That's coming up on October 2nd, which is Friday, right? Or is that Saturday?

Hamish: It's gotta be Friday. October 2nd is Friday, yep.

Osman: Saturday. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's called First Friday. Hello. Hello. Yeah. Hello. So the NoBo Arts District, which, uh, our office is here in the NoBo Arts District, over the years we've noticed the city really take on activities that relate to the NoBo Arts District, including First Friday, and there's, there are galleries that are open, and the, the city provides beverages and snacks. And, and I think this is gonna continue to escalate as the new museum is eventually developed. There's also now a gallery, I don't know if you noticed it, but in our plaza, that where all the signs are Right next to Boulder Games, go left, and there's a, there's a gallery there with a bunch of art in it. So I think it's a fantastic, a- almost a differentiation between this neighborhood, which is originally North Boulder subcommunity, has become the NoBo Arts District, compared to other parts of town. Like, it's bringing people up to North Boulder to come check this out.

Hamish: Um,

Hamish: Yeah, Bomoka. Yeah That's awesome. No, I'm incredibly- Oh, really? Yeah. Okay.

Hamish: Yeah. Right.

Hamish: Yeah. I, I've been to, uh, a First Friday before. It was great. Lots of live music, um, awesome exhibitions, and incredibly casual. You know, you show up, have a great time.

Osman: And lots of people.

Hamish: And- Yeah. Yeah.

Osman: All right. In our fundraiser column, the first of, of s- of two, I guess you could say the first of three, uh, and I'm, I'm gonna actually be attending this one. The Thorne Nature Experience is having their Natural Night Out fundraiser, and I think this is their big fundraiser for the year. So I will admit I'm not an expert in the Thorne Nature Experience.

Hamish: No?

Osman: Um, I've been on the board of Growing Gardens and now on The Dairy. And, um, but I recognize this organization because what they do really resonates for me. They connect young people, uh, kids, with nature, and they've been doing it for a long time. Um, Oakley Thorne I think is, uh, is over… I, I'm, I hope I don't get this wrong 'cause I think I saw this in an email. I think this person is approaching the founder, uh, emeritus, right? He's no longer… He's, like, sort of the honorary president or executive director. He's not, he's not running the show anymore, but I think he's 100 years old.

Hamish: Hmm. Get out. Yeah, wow.

Osman: Um, I'll ne- I, I need to double-check on that. Uh, but I-

Hamish: And so this is a nature reserve? What, uh-

Osman: Yeah, this is a It is, um, it is natural land set out in, in, uh, Lafayette, and they run kids programming there.

Hamish: It is- Open it up.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. And they-

Hamish: Awesome.

Osman: So

Hamish: Good.

Osman: Yeah, uh, yeah, Oak- Oakley Thorne is 100 years old and still very active, and it's all about helping kids develop a lifelong connection to the environment. And it's, and it's something that a lot of people may not know about me, but environmental science and animal behavior, biology were my undergrad focus. And for sure, being outside and being connected to nature is always a priority for me, and anything that can help young people develop that connection is really vital. And it sort of matches up with another one of our…

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a fantastic one.

Osman: So I, I'm not entirely sure what to expect. I'm going. Tickets are still available. Um, we'll put a link into the show notes for you to go check it out. But this sort of ties into another one, which is further down in the list, Hamish, so I'm gonna skip around, and that's Women's Wilderness's 5K fundraiser is on Saturday at 9:00 AM.

Hamish: Wilderness. I take them. Mm.

Hamish: I'm not-

Osman: I'm not running because of my ankle injury that I'm still recovering from, but some people very close to me are running, and it's a really fun fundraiser for an organization. We love to support Women's Wilderness, and, uh, of which also my wife is on the board for. And it's, uh, if you, if you are interested in… Like, she won her age category last year.

Hamish: Oh, really? Well- I don't think-

Osman: I don't think it's a huge, it's a huge race. Yeah. But it's well-sponsored, so it's a nice way to, you know, pick up some awards and…

Hamish: 24. No kidding. And she, um, did she compete in Leadville this year or last year?

Osman: She competed in the Leadville Heavy Half, but her goal was not to compete.

Hamish: Right, it's to even participate. Yeah.

Osman: Right. She was just trying to finish. So when you look her up, don't, like, sh- we were so proud of her for finishing.

Hamish: Look out.

Osman: Um, you know, my wife and I really love to run, and but we do it for the fun of it, not, we're not… There are people in Boulder, many people in Boulder that are professional athletes, and we are not at that level. We are at the, hey, get off the couch level.

Hamish: Humbly so, but, I mean, you guys are, um, definitely in great fitness level.

Osman: So two great nonprofits that are having fundraisers this weekend.

Hamish: Great. Yeah.

Osman: Uh, the Thorne Nature Experience that's right here in Lafayette, and tickets are still available, and Women's Wilderness, and I'm pretty sure you can still sign up to race that too. And the Women's Wilderness 5K is actually in Thornton, so yeah, not right here in Boulder. It's Friday.

Hamish: Oh, interesting. Okay. No.

Hamish: And the deadline to register is tonight. Um, which, Friday night, but it's, it, but it, this podcast is out tonight. Well, Friday.

Osman: Oh.

Osman: Oh, Friday.

Osman: Okay. Well, I, I, you're talking about register for the race?

Hamish: Yeah, that's right.

Osman: Okay, so if you g- if you hear about it in the podcast, get on it. You… Yeah. I don't know if you can still register on, at the event, but probably not.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Hamish: At, at, at least from the website, it said, uh, yeah. Yep.

Osman: Yeah. Okay. All right, let's talk about the other events.

Hamish: This one I think I will, ooh, would like to go to. Got a family thing, the date's not locked in, but Historic Boulders Meet the Spirits. Uh, we did this last year or the year, the year before that?

Osman: It's every other year.

Hamish: Two years ago. Yeah. Okay.

Osman: So if you're new to Boulder or if you haven't heard of this event, Historic Boulder is another fantastic nonprofit that House Einstein supports and, and my wife and I are actually members of.

Hamish: So…

Osman: We are connected to some of the leaders at, um, at Historic Boulder and including some of the board members. In fact, we just did a deal with John Hatch, who's a board member of Historic Boulder. So it's a fantastic organization, okay? I'm, I'm a huge fan of it, and every other year, they do this event called Meet the Spirits.

Hamish: Oh, cool.

Hamish: Absolutely.

Osman: And in this event, local community members, some of whom are very well-known community members, like s- former city council people, will get dressed up in historic garb, and they will stand next to the gravestone of somebody who's buried either in Columbia Cemetery or up in Nederland. This year it's Columbia Cemetery here in the city of Boulder, and they will tell their story of how they lived their life and often how they passed away.

Hamish: Oh, cool. Yeah.

Osman: And so it has a little bit of a spooky element and these, uh, uh, these well-known people that are in the city, actors as well as well-known people like city council people, will act out this person-

Hamish: Yeah. It's LARPing, is it? Live action role-play? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Osman: Live action role play. Yeah. I guess I would call it live action role play. Sure.

Hamish: Well- I don't know. Yeah.

Osman: Yeah. Sure. I've never had anybody use LARPing in a sentence, but sure. Um, and it's fun. It's really fun because you learn a little bit about the history of Boulder and individuals who have, who have passed away and are buried in these cemeteries. It's very respectful, by the way. It's not, um, it's not done in a way that I think the s- the deceased individuals would find…

Hamish: Um, fun. Yeah.

Hamish: Very respectful. Mm-hmm.

Hamish: Right. It's, uh, it's respectful. I would say- It's not gauche.

Osman: Although I would say I would be nervous playing any… First of all, there's probably not a lot of people that are, you know, In- In- Indian American, Punjabi American, um, that are buried in these cemeteries, so I'm probably off the hook for playing any of these characters. But I would be a little nervous, right? Like some spirit is annoyed and is gonna attach themself for you for, for portraying you in a really negative way. But it's, you know, this is a fun event. I would say probably kids 10 and up.

Hamish: Fair point. Um…

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah, fair point. I would be a little nervous.

Hamish: Oh, man. Yeah.

Hamish: Yeah. We saw some youngins, but…

Osman: I don't know if I'd bring really little kids. I, I mean, maybe. It's still fun. It's not that spooky. It's in the daylight or dusky hour, I think, eventually it ends. I don't know the actual hours for it. Is it on the… Oh yeah, it's over by 5:00, so it's not in the dark.

Hamish: Yeah. We've got, so s- Saturday 11 to 5. Yeah. Saturday is 11 to 4, Sunday is 12 to 5.

Osman: It's a really fun time, and, and tickets support a great organization.

Hamish: I, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go.

Hamish: Yeah. The, um… Oh, if it, 'cause it was, you know, two years ago now, um, a lot of good stories. Uh, some where it's like, "I was unnamed, but I have records," and, you know, "I did this, but then I passed away. My brother's over there. Go find out what happened or how I passed away." You know? And, and they kind of… It was, it was a lot of fun.

Osman: All right. At The Dairy this Saturday at 4:00, Compass Renaissance Resonance. Resonance. Gosh, I'm like, hello. Compass Resonance.

Hamish: To be fair, I've read, read that as Res- Renaissance- Yeah this entire time.

Osman: Yeah.

Osman: There, there are some great musicians, extremely talented musicians performing at 4:00 PM on Saturday. Tickets are still available. Cello Monk with Camden Shaw and Core, and this looks like a fun event, and if I didn't have a bunch of other things going on, including supporting my wife at the Women's Wilderness 5K, I would totally be at this thing because it looks like a lot of fun.

Hamish: I can't.

Hamish: I totally get it.

Hamish: Yeah, we listened to a bit of Cam- Camden and Shaw when we were putting together the, the show notes, and, and Cello's awesome. Gosh, I always forget, you know?

Osman: Really interesting.

Osman: Cello is awesome. Cello's awesome.

Osman: Okay. Open Studios, Oct- uh, 3, 4, and 10, 11. So what is… October 3rd, 4th, and 11th. 10th and 11th. Okay, so for the next two weekends, you c- uh, Boulder is hosting Open Studios, and if you have never experienced Open Studios, it's a lot of fun. So you get a little map, and you go to artists who are part of the Open Studios, um, experience, and you get to go visit their actual studio, see how they're making art, look at the art they've made. These are all local residents. It's really fun. I think you have to pay for the, you have to pay for the map.

Hamish: Okay. Open Studios.

Hamish: October 3rd and 4th. Yep.

Hamish: And then- Yep.

Hamish: The next one. Mm-mm. Oh, okay.

Osman: Like, that's how they control this a- as a fundraiser, but it's a really de minimis amount of money and a really fun way to connect with the arts community here in Boulder. Some of our friends have been the artists. I don't know if they're doing it this year or not. I'll have to look into the website.

Hamish: You know, some token… Yeah.

Osman: But strongly recommend it as a fun weekend activity.

Osman: The Open Studios Tour is actually free. It's across Boulder County. It's 160 artists, and October 3rd and 4th, and then 10th and 11th. The kickoff to the season is September 30th, which is today, which y- unfortunately you won't be able to go to if you're hearing this podcast now, but it's 4:30 to 6:30 today, Hamish, is the opening kickoff. But there's no charge for Open Studios.

Hamish: No. Man, I think my weekend's gonna fill up here.

Osman: And,

Osman: And two weekends in a row. Right? Great opportunity to walk around Boulder. Like, it, it liter- it's a walking event. You don't have to drive. It's, it is.

Hamish: Have a good weekend. Yeah. Right. Great opportunity. It's kinda like a treasure map in a sense, right? Like, you go and find them. Yeah.

Osman: Exactly. It's like a treasure map.

Hamish: That's very, very cool. And the last event. Farmers market. Yeah. Out of the way. Right. So this is

Osman: And then our last event for, to wrap up Event Horizon is the farmers market's ending, uh, the Wednesday farmers market. So this is the time of year that the farmers market wraps up.

Hamish: The time. Mm-hmm. It goes on.

Osman: We don't, we haven't mentioned the farmers market before, and we typically won't unless it's the first or the last one, because it goes on from spring all the way into the fall. The Saturday's farmers market continues on for a little bit longer, but the Wednesday one is ending, so this is your heads up that if you are into farmers markets here in Boulder, the season's about to end, and the last one for the Wednesday farmers market is October 7th.

Hamish: Big one.

Osman: Uh, 3:30 to 7:30. Go check it out. It's a great way to meet your local farmers and get some amazing produce and other agricultural products, including usually peaches. Usually there's a big truck. Uh, there's wine, there's music, there's all this… It's, it isn't, it is a thing.

Hamish: I mean, there's wine there and there's all sorts there. Yeah.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, I'm thinking next week we're gonna need to check on, like, Munson Farms or something for the, the pumpkin, uh, carving and pumpkin picking and all the fun kinda spooky stuff coming up.

Osman: Absolutely. And I, I just wanna add one more thing before we get off the farmers market, and that if you are a client and you wanna know a secret about parking for the farmers market, I have, I have one for you, but I cannot share it on the pod. I had… This is, reach out to me and I will tell you the secret, because it is a challenge to find parking. A lot of people just ride their bikes.

Hamish: Yeah. I just wanna go to the farmers market. Hmm.

Hamish: Yeah, my bad.

Hamish: Uh, yes.

Hamish: Hmm. Right.

Osman: That's the easy way. Or walk if you're close enough, or ride the Skip and get off at, at, um, you know, Broadway and whatever, dow- Arapahoe. Like, get off right there at the, at the stop between Arapahoe and, and, uh, Canyon.

Hamish: Get off at- That bus depot right there, yeah.

Hamish: Like, uh, like- Broadway? Okay, yeah.

Osman: Yeah, so.

Hamish: Anyhow.

Osman: So go check out the farmers market. Okay.

Hamish: Well, remind me to pick your brain on that

Osman: On the secret parking?

Hamish: For the se- Yeah. Yes, please.

Osman: It is truly a secret, and there's only a couple spots.

Hamish: Awesome.

Osman: Yeah.

Hamish: Yeah, I'm stoked.

Osman: Yeah. It's, it's one of those things you just have to know about.

Hamish: Pretty cool. We've got, um… We had that downtown listing a whi- uh, like, you know, a year and a half, two years ago now. And every time we have a, a listing in a location in Boulder, I just learn it so much better, and I'm always like, "Ooh, yeah, that's a good little spot," you know? Or, you know, "That doesn't say resident only," and I can…

Osman: Oh, yeah.

Osman: I mean, I-- when we do as much photography and videography and storytelling in our content about our listings and about neighborhoods, we, you really learn things. Even after living in this community for well over 20 years, I'm still learning amazing little new things.

Hamish: Yeah. It's, it's… Yeah. There's always something.

Osman: Yeah.

Hamish: Speaking of, well, uh,

Osman: In equities research, we frequently were put on the phone with the client's institutional… Sorry, the broker's institutional clients, and it was to provide color on a particular trade that the broker was recommending.

Hamish: Brokers.

Osman: And as it turned out, the brokers were constantly recommending trades, whether or not they made any sense, because that's how they made money. But we were asked to kind of fill in with something intelligent to say.

Hamish: Yeah, that checks out.

Osman: And, um, what I will say is that that idea is what's underlying this particular research. And what I did was I looked at sales volume over the last three months in Boulder County for just single family houses, and I looked at the current inventory, and I broke out the inventory by price range and did the analysis to see how it's looking.

Hamish: Yeah. Program.

Osman: And what quickly appeared was between 400,000 and 900,000, that's the meat of the market, um, and it represents almost 80% of transactions in the county for single family houses. And, and when you look in those price ranges- It's hovering about 25% under contract even now with the higher rates that have been in place.

Osman: But when you start to inch up, and this is not a surprise to anyone, it starts to plummet, right? The percentage under contract starts to plummet, and there's a really dramatic change above 1.5.

Osman: And then it-- And then above 2.5, it's like the market falls off a cliff. And when you look at the closings and you look at the under contracts in that three million dollar zone, and then you get… Oh, sorry, three, yeah, three million dollar zone, and then you look in the four million dollar zone where almost nothing's under contract, four million and up, what's really clear is there's a push. What's, what's happened, and we've seen this anecdotally when we've talked about individual transactions that closed in the threes, frequently they started in the fours.

Hamish: Mm.

Osman: They-- So million dollar discounts for three million dollar listings are not uncommon anymore. That-- And, uh, there's still sellers that are in massive denial, but what the three million dollar people need to realize is that they're competing with the four million dollar sellers that are sliding into their market.

Hamish: Mm. Yeah.

Hamish: Good point.

Osman: That's a really big deal. And as the further up you go in price, the more elastic buyers are, right? Elasticity of demand increases because those people have more resources, and they're looking at not just two million to two point five million dollar houses. They might be looking at two million to four million dollar houses. So versus the, the meat of the market, or the tofu and vegetables, I don't know, this is Boulder, the 80% segment, right? Those buyers, in theory, should be much more rate sensitive. And even though rates have been high all summer and now are getting much higher, we still see very respectable percentages under contract at the end of September, twenty-five percent-ish. So that tells me that our market has been still swung to the sell side all summer long.

Hamish: Right. Mm-hmm.

Osman: And the big question, the trillion-dollar question is what is--

Osman: What will be the effect of rising rates into the future? And we're likely gonna be looking at sev- well, seven and a half now. It could be 8% rates into the future, especially for jumbos. So I did the math to see like, okay, what, what's that difference in since, you know, the last couple of weeks? What's the impact on a jumbo mortgage? And it turns out it's not really that much to go from, let's say, 7% to 7.24 or 7.24 to 7.5.

Hamish: Right. Mm. Yeah.

Osman: It does add up over the course of a year. You could be looking at $1,000 or more a year of additional mortgage payments.

Osman: But we're also talking about homes that qualify for jumbo mortgages, which is over $800,000, right? So these buyers are, especially here in the city of Boulder, they typically are very well-educated and affluent, shopping within their means, and very well-employed. They're not making purchase decisions that maximize their capability of buying. The majority of our clients are typically cash to begin with. But when they're not cash, they are 25% down and conservative in their budgeting.

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah. Within their means.

Osman: And I saw this in, in 2006, 2007, 2008, when the market was in free fall and foreclosures were spiking. I was using a website called RealtyTrac, and I was, I was manually scraping data every week because I was really hopeful at the time that, oh, Boulder, the Boulder market's gonna fall apart. We're gonna be able to buy something cheap. I'm gonna- Right. I'm gonna be able to, you know, advise my clients and help them get even better deals. Very exciting. And then what I found out, the reality, and I eventually I stopped tracking it because it was so disappointing, was Boulder County had the lowest foreclosure rate of any of the surrounding counties, and the city of Boulder had the lowest foreclosure rate in Boulder County. And it was so tiny even then when the market was just, like, complete free fall, falling apart.

Hamish: Mm.

Hamish: Yeah, you're like rubbing your fing- hands together.

Hamish: Mm.

Osman: And on top of that, when I did find foreclosures or pre-foreclosures, those people were distressed and did not wanna hear from an agent trying to take advantage of their financial position, which you have to ask yourself if that, is that ethical or not.

Osman: I, I, I looked at it as, okay, here's an opportunity to pay market and maybe help people get out, but also get a deal.

Osman: Like, there could be an opportunity before the vultures truly get in, um, to be a-- have a win-win. But that's not how these people looked at these situations that are selling at all. Like, you have couples that are close to d- you know, families that are breaking up, couples that are close to divorcing, a partner that hasn't worked in two years, lost their job. Like, this is medical debt. Like, you're dealing with people that are really unhappy and dealing with really bad life circumstances. And so I abandoned that entire line of professional practice because it was awful, and it was tiny, and it was n- there was really no opportunity there that's sizable in the city of Boulder. And yes, people do-- The, the only opportunity, by the way, in the foreclosure market, Hamish, is, that I see is, like, truly

Hamish: Not how it went.

Osman: Clean of all this mess is just to go to the public trustees auction with cash. You're not dealing with pre-foreclosure people that are in, you know, pain. You're dealing with the public trustee auctioning the property for the bank, and you don't ha- really have any interaction with the people.

Osman: Um, they're, they're, they've, they've been evicted or they've been, you know, they're, they're out of the property.

Hamish: At that point, that process has moved along enough to kind of… Yeah.

Osman: It-- They may have dumped concrete in the toilets and cut out the plumbing, but the house is no longer theirs, right? They're out of the house. The home is in the, in the foreclo- in the public auction process. And I saw some people get deals there. I was not financially capable at that time to show up with cash and, you know, swing.

Hamish: Mm.

Hamish: It's gotta be cash from the trustees or?

Osman: I mean, you could go to a hard money lender or something like that, but you're not gonna get an inspection. You're not gonna get an appraisal. You're not gonna get all the normal things that pe- so you really have to have a margin there that makes up for all the risk you're taking buying a foreclosed property.

Hamish: Gosh, yeah.

Hamish: Yeah. No kidding.

Hamish: There was, um… When I was-- Like right before I went to bed last night, I was watching a video about, um, this kinda housing market type of situation we're in, where, uh, rates aren't necessarily looking like they'll be coming down anytime soon, but also neither are prices. You were saying, uh, in '08 things were kind of in a free fall. Did you see prices declining here?

Osman: Acro-- Yeah, prices have already declined here.

Osman: Um, are they gonna decline further is the question, right? Like, it's not that they haven't declined. They have definitely come down from, you know, the frenzy of 2022. Um, not across the board. Like, the entry level has, I think, come back to basically the same, um, or slightly higher, but the, but the high end is not at all. It's, it's still very much a, a, a buyer's market.

Hamish: Oh, yeah, from the 2022s? Yeah.

Hamish: And that's, um, part of what I was like kinda hitting on is that one, a lot of sellers are, have a rate far below, um, current rates. So there's not much incentive to sell.

Osman: Um-

Hamish: Um, they're more or less kinda testing the market each time. And, um, then to your point too, like a, a lot of Boulder residents are well-educated below their means, you know, well-positioned. So the amount of people that absolutely have to sell, uh, are, are fewer.

Hamish: Prices are kinda less likely to come down anymore.

Osman: I mean, it just, it just begs the question of how long are you gonna be rate locked into your property?

Osman: And if you chose the property well and, and, uh, were at the entry level of the market in a robust p- part, part of the market, you can sell your home for more money or the same that you paid for it a couple of years ago, even though rates are higher.

Osman: If you unfortunately bought in a weaker market segment, a, a type of property or price range where there isn't depth of market, there's a good chance you're gonna lose money to sell your house right now, if you can even find a buyer, particularly for certain attached dwellings.

Hamish: The real if, yeah.

Osman: Right? And, and I, I… Boy, it sounds pessimistic, but that's the truth, right? When you look at what percentage of listings are go- And we're gonna talk about this with attached dwellings when we get there. What percent are under contract, it's quite shocking, uh, how few properties in certain market segments are under contract, which means a huge portion of disappointed sellers. I'll be meeting with, um, some potential sellers on Friday, and, um, they're thinking in long term, like what exactly do they want in their lifestyle, and there have been some lifestyle changes. You know, they've got a puppy. They wanna have the dog in the backyard. And now the townhome they ho- own doesn't really work, but they're handcuffed to the rate of like 2.5% or 3% on a much bigger mortgage.

Hamish: Hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, in that percentage, like, yeah.

Osman: Or they can go buy a cheaper house, you know, out in the country in, in, in northeast Longmont or Fort Collins that's like 70% of the asset value of what they currently have and have a higher monthly payment. Like, but they'll at least have the house they want, and eventually when rates come down, they'll be refinancing a mortgage with a much lower principal to begin with. So it's, you know, it's kind of tough strategy. It also plays into the monetary theory and devaluation of the dollar and, you know, these are real assets, right? And so what does that look like in 10 years or 20 years? And that's the kind of big picture thinking that the conver- that the conversation I'll be having with these clients on Friday is all about.

Hamish: Sacrifice location and yeah.

Hamish: The broader impacts, yeah.

Hamish: And that's the really hard one too, is it's easy to say, I think, like when rates come down, but by how much and when, right? Um,

Osman: But it's not, it's not just rates. So it's rates potentially coming down, but it's also the devaluation of the dollar, inflation make… And how does that play out? The cost of goods and services go up, but so do people's paychecks.

Osman: And I'll never forget, I'll ne- I'll never forget this conversation I had with an entrepreneur neuro on Nantucket who I was renting his barn from, and really, really successful guy.

Hamish: Hopefully, yeah.

Osman: And I asked, and he-- We started talking about houses, and I asked him what it was like buying his first house. And he said, you know, he paid… It was like in the late '70s. And he talked about the interest rate. He's like, "It was like 15% interest or something." And I was like, "My God, how did, how did that impact you?" And he said it didn't matter because he was making so much more money every year that it exceeded that rate of inflation, and he was able to pay the house off much faster than he ever expected.

Osman: So it was almost irrelevant. And that, that never really occurred to me that that's one way to get out of an asset bubble, is you inflate your way out and all tides, you know, uh, i- on average, right, incomes will be rising much faster, which in theory… It's not, it's not in real terms, it's in nominal terms. But the debt is in nominal terms, not in real terms. So I, it, it's something to think about for how this next cycle's gonna play out.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Hamish: That's true. I mean, yeah, your payment's gonna be the same. Well, uh, if you're in a fixed yada, yada. But like, yeah.

Hamish: You know, some people had $50 mortgage payments, call it, you know, like 60 years ago.

Hamish: Um, it's still the same $50 in today's world, but it's worth a lot less now.

Osman: Uh, I mean, your, you, you, your millennials are so upset by like the boomers with their $50 a month mortgage payment. Yeah. You know, it's like 40% of homes are owned without a mortgage.

Hamish: Just as an example. Yeah. But just as an example, right?

Hamish: Yeah. I saw that too. Four in 10 homeowners.

Osman: Yeah, that's right.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. So yeah, there's very little incentive for somebody, uh, for most sellers, I think, to go out there and be like, "Oh yeah, I'd love a higher rate," or, you know, "I'm, I'm not paying a mortgage.

Hamish: Let me go see if I can go, kind of get myself into one now."

Osman: All right, so let, l- let's talk about a few adjacent topics that might be of interest to our listeners, and one of them is

Osman: If you're buying a home, when should you lock given volatility in the mortgage markets around rates? And rates are always volatile.

Osman: Usually they're not moving up this fast, but they move around all the time.

Osman: Sometimes there's some really bad news and a flight to Treasuries which drops the 10-year, and suddenly w- three days later there's a significant drop in rates.

Osman: When, I m- So when do you think, Hamish, you should lock?

Hamish: Well, I was gonna say backing out as a kind of… Let's say if somebody completely new to real estate, when do you lock in? Is that when you are looking at properties and you are pre-qualified with your lender? Or is it, um, you know, you already have your mortgage and you're like, "You know, I'll choose this rate for five years." What, what type of, when are we l- locking in?

Osman: I mean, really, you asked the same question, right? Is, it could even be before the transaction goes un- under contract, you could lock.

Hamish: That's when you get the opportunity to lock comes up.

Osman: Um, but typically most m- most lenders want you to have a property in under contract before they lock. And I don't, I don't know. I mean, I could be wrong about that. I don't… Is it possible to lock your rate before you even have a property

Hamish: Okay. 'Cause going for… Yeah.

Hamish: With my lender, it was when I was under contract, but I wasn't sure if it's… 'Cause, um, and maybe this is it. Like in New Zealand, I think you can, you have the option to either let your rate float with the market or lock it for 10 years. And so a lot of people, I think, locked their rate, um, pretty recently, and they're really hurting now.

Hamish: Um, but then there's a bunch of people that locked their rate in, um, 2020, right, when rates were a lot lower.

Osman: Identified?

Hamish: Um, but that, that's, I don't know if that same possibility is a thing in, in US mortgages.

Osman: Well, I mean, I, I'm not, I c- I'm not gonna speak to New Zealand finance, okay?

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah, no, but like that's where I'm getting m- mixed up is like I'm like, are you talking about like you purchase the home and you have a mortgage rate that fluctuates or are you talking about like…

Osman: Okay, so there's three major flavors of mortgages.

Osman: Um, there's 30… So this is the US market, okay?

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Osman: 30-Year fixed rate mortgages, 15-year fixed rate mortgages, and then there are adjustable five and seven-year ARMs. That's the most common, uh, four choices and, and most people choose fixed rate mortgages.

Osman: Um, and historically, whenever I've chosen a fixed rate mortgage, I would have done better with the adjustable rate. But, uh, and, and only recently did I choose the adjustable rate to gamble on this, um, because I could just pay for-- I could just pay it off. It's not that big of a deal. But it's an interesting gamble. So, um, and but what we're talking about is when do you lock? And this is really challenging for anybody to dictate, right? Because it's gonna be based on local na- na- it's gonna be based on national events and the broader financial markets. Right. It's not something your agent really should be telling you when to go lock or not lock, your real estate agent. Your lender, if they're good, and this is one of our lenders is well known for this, like if there is bad news hitting, he is like on the weekend calling and saying, "I think we should lock first thing Monday 'cause rates are gonna plummet by a quarter point. It's not a lot of money, but I'm happy to try to save you some money, and this looks like a good time.

Hamish: Really?

Hamish: Oh, okay.

Hamish: Mm-hmm, mm.

Osman: Your choice." I have never seen anybody lock without having a property identified and under contract. Yeah, absolutely. So I wanna say that clearly. I don't know if that's actually the case that it's possible to lock in advance.

Hamish: Right. So I think that's… Yeah, yeah.

Osman: Um, but what you can do is choose your favorite two or three potential loan officers and lenders from a variety of institutions, begin the process of working with them. Don't completely agree to work with them until you have a property identified. And then at that point, once you are under contract, you have a couple of days to make your choice of lender, and typically people will lock in that timeframe. But it, it, it's usually because the volatility is not so high that it benefits you to just let it ride.

Osman: Although some people let it ride for much longer than that, and they can lock closer to closing. But there is a timeline where you have to make a choice, and we trust our loan officers, our lending partners, to help us ad- uh, to advise our clients on when to do that. We don't make that call.

Hamish: No, definitely not. Yeah, that's the, that's the financial advisor/lender conversation. I do remember, um, locking in my rate when I was going to purchase my home and just… I, I just wanted to be glued to see if I was making the wrong decision or not. And like, I, I made the correct decision, rates have only gone up. But it's funny, I got such in the habit of checking that email every, every Friday when my lender sent out, you know, "Here's what rates are currently kinda going for," um, that even now if he were to send it, I'd go quickly open it up to see if I'm, you know, if I could refi or something. Um, which-- And we're like two and a half percent off now.

Osman: Well, the thing… Okay.

Osman: It's so, it's so funny that people get so fixated on rate locks and even lender choice, because what you should really care about is performance within a realm of reasonableness on, on the cost of the loan, right? Like if, if we're talking about half a percent difference in interest, you know, I-- that's a huge amount of money, even in the year that you're, you know, the first year of the mortgage's life.

Hamish: Yeah. Yep.

Osman: But performance is such a big deal, and y- you are trusting y- you are trusting your lo- your institution to show up with the money, and if they screw this up, your earnest money is at risk and the lender doesn't lose anything. So y- y- you have to be really careful choosing one of these online lenders that look really good in practice but may not be able to deliver the goods.

Hamish: Reputation too, yeah.

Osman: Once you own the home, feel free to refi. Like, go for it. If rates drop, it doesn't matter. Like, it, they're all commodity products, so pick, pick your favorite lender and the lowest rate. There's no problem with execution because you already own the home. The, the problem with execution is when you're buying a home and, and there are certain lenders, in particular Wells Fargo, that has a really bad reputation in Boulder County for l- for poor performance. And even Chase, which is better, is still pretty crappy. These are degrees of crappy, and I just wanna say that that's largely b- I, I think it's just because there's a disconnect between their sales team and their underwriting team, and there's such a large…

Hamish: Oh my gosh.

Hamish: Too big to fail kinda attitude, like…

Osman: Well, it's just there's like lack of accountability. Like, you would think that a larger institution would perform better, but our past experience has been that Elevations performs much better than these large, large institutions. And prior to the PNC acquisition, FirstBank also performed really well.

Hamish: Mm.

Osman: I wouldn't trust PNC to perform at all, given my personal experiences with their acquisition of FirstBank. I-- we are probably switching our bank accounts from PNC because of how bad they are.

Hamish: How that went.

Osman: Uh, and but they're a bigger player, so it does sort of fit the, the narrative.

Hamish: Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, they're like mid-tier. You got Wells Fargo and Chase at the, the higher and Evolution there, yeah.

Osman: Okay.

Osman: What I wanna ask you about is seller rate buydowns, because you have a personal experience with that.

Hamish: Why?

Osman: I've, I distinctly recall your seller, part of the negotiations on your purchase was getting your… Didn't you have the seller pay down your rate?

Hamish: Mm-mm.

Osman: Oh.

Hamish: No, I was in a bidding war and then paid 20 over.

Osman: Okay, I thought-- Okay. Well, I thought we applied some cash in the deal toward the rate buydown or something from the commissions or something along those lines.

Hamish: Um,

Hamish: Yeah, I think it was… I had a really s- decent down payment, and I think I apportioned a decent amount of that towards a buydown.

Hamish: Um, and that, yeah, that got me down. I think I would've been looking at like 6.5% to… And now I'm at like 5.875. A pretty decent amount. There was-- And I didn't--

Hamish: To be honest, I didn't really care to know too much. Um, but you know, I was talking to my lender and he's like, "This is as much money as you can put towards buydowns. You've maxed out your available, your available rate down buydowns." Um, and I was like, "Okay, cool. Well then let's put the rest as a down payment," you know?

Osman: Okay.

Hamish: I kind of was like, "Here's how much cash I have, sir. Um, you know, let's, let's come and figure out what makes sense."

Osman: Adorable that you use the word sir.

Hamish: Um- Yeah. He's a sir.

Osman: Like, uh, that's fine, but it's sort of funny that like I, I don't know, I think you, I think you have the customer client relat- the client, you know, I think you have the relationship backwards. Like, they want your business. Um, they should be calling you sir.

Hamish: Backwards?

Hamish: Yeah, no kidding.

Osman: But one of the things I wanted to mention is how prevalent or how we're starting to see heavy marketing,

Hamish: Incentivizing, right?

Osman: He- heavy marketing on properties that are more difficult to sell.

Osman: Um, and so f- for example, and I'm not gonna mention the address, but I'm gonna read you the listing comments. So this is normally,

Hamish: Oh, like broker-- Oh, no, sorry.

Osman: So this is normally where you get a description of the property, right? So you… It's a listing. It's all advertising about the home, how beautiful it is, and how it's in like the best location, and how it's totally updated, and all of the things that make this the home you should buy. So it's usually emotionally appealing, and this listing, which honestly has only been on the market 23 days, right? Like, it's sort of surprising, um, that it, they, they are, they are resorting to this. I, I think it, it probably speaks more to the agent's anxiety about rising rates than the actual market, but it's all caps 5.75% interest rate on this totally remodeled home in a superb location in thriving, I'm not gonna mention the city. And then all caps again, locked in reduced rate as low as 5.75%.

Osman: APR 6.211% with a 20% down conventional and 10/6 ARM loan through List & Lock. Interest rate is fixed for the initial 10 years. This is a seller paid rate buydown that reduces the buyer's interest rate and monthly payment. Terms and conditions apply. See disclosures and info and documents, additional property remarks for more information.

Osman: For more information, again. Said it twice. Available with FHA and VA loans and lower down payments, which will vary the interest rate payment. Contact agent for materials and details.

Hamish: Mm. Mm-hmm. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Osman: Like, it's just like th- so the first five sentences, right, are all about this rate locks with, with the, you know, repeat.

Hamish: The hell with the property, man.

Osman: Uh, it's… And, okay, so this is in the $700,000 range, which based on the location is prob- I, I, I mean, I, I would say might be a buyer that… So the, the real issue, okay, is not the general location of the property. It's when you zoom in and you look at an aerial map and you realize there's a substation in the backyard.

Hamish: Kind of in line?

Hamish: Oh, like electrical substation?

Osman: And so this, this is wh- I, um, I'm sorry. Substation.

Hamish: Electrical substation? Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Osman: Yes, an electrical substation, which is visually blightful and there's concerns over EMF with those things.

Osman: So it's, it's a difficult to sell property and they have chosen to lead with the rate buydown. And for sure that might appeal to some people, um, but it also is backwards from the way real estate decisions are typically made.

Osman: The way real estate decisions are typically made is emotions first. Emotions have decided this is the right house, and of course it's in the budget, and the location, and all those things functionally that the buyer identified or likely identified, but it's emotions first, and then they backfill with rationality. They've already made the decision they wanna buy the house, then they wanna look at the comps. Then they wanna see, okay, does this make sense from a market perspective?

Osman: And leading with the rate buydowns is sort of the opposite direction. It also screams there's a lot of problems with this house, and so we're gonna make it cheap for you to own because the seller really wants to get out.

Hamish: Yeah, it's, um,

Hamish: Creative financing.

Osman: My advice to sellers is unless you really have no choice, you should never lead with what a bargain it is, what a screaming deal, cheapest house in the neighborhood, lowest monthly payments, seller will pay you to buy the house. Like, that sort of stuff is, it, it's the wrong signaling to the, to the buyer pool.

Hamish: Question for you.

Hamish: Uh, would you or is there ever a scenario in which you would carry a note for the buyer?

Osman: Oh, yeah.

Osman: Oh, for sure.

Osman: So this is interesting because I have family experience with this, and my family, even though they're, were not named Patel, owned a motel in the '90s, and I worked at this motel.

Hamish: Oh, okay.

Hamish: Can I la- Is that okay to laugh?

Osman: I mean, it's, like, it's true. The, all my friends that are Patels know that that's the name of the, the, the caste that typically owns motels and hotels. Like, it's, they're, and they're proud of it, and they should be, okay? This is amazing as a, as a com- as a, as a s- as a niche of the i- the Desi subcommunity. Patels own a lot of motels, okay? There also is one that's currently the FBI director, so it's, it… Right? Like, okay. So anyway, um, where are we going with this? Uh, one of the… We, we sold the motel to a Patel buyer, and we provided owner financing for, like, the first five years or seven years and, and the reason that made sense is that, one, you got a rate of return on the cash that was above, well ab- like, you, you typically charge more than the going rate for mortgages, right? The reason they want you to finance it is because they can't qualify or, uh, uh, so you sh- you could

Hamish: The Mattel game.

Hamish: Huh.

Hamish: Hmm. Yeah.

Hamish: This is true.

Hamish: They can't qualify or something.

Osman: Charge more than commercial rates, and you know the asset.

Osman: So you understand the value of the collateral, and if they default, you keep their, their down payment, not just their earnest money, which is 20%.

Hamish: Oh, that's wicked, yeah.

Osman: So you get the house back, or in this case the motel back, and you get the 20% that they put in. A- and, and you, you like this asset, right? You're, you're not selling garbage. So owner financing sometimes makes sense, and with the Patels in this community in upstate New York, my family felt like there's zero risk of default. Like, this is a really tight-knit community with extremely reputable people, and I think it was, um, the, the guarantor was also somebody my dad knew personally and- Oh trusted from a business perspective. Like, this is not somebody who's gonna ever run away from their obligations, okay? And this is upstate New York, where it's not big city living. Like, people know each other. Yeah. Right?

Hamish: Hmm. Okay.

Hamish: Yeah, small town type stuff. Yeah.

Osman: The same town where, where my dad went to buy our first home, and they literally, the application was, like, five minutes at the community bank.

Osman: And they're like, "Oh, you're a doctor at this, this hospital. Take the… Here, how much do you need, doc?" Yeah. Like, that was it. There was no, there was no Fannie and Freddie at that time that w- was, you know, securitizing all these loans. It was all regional, regional banking.

Osman: Um, so a very different world.

Hamish: No kidding.

Hamish: That's cool to know. I've-- Yeah, I always wondered about that 'cause it's been an option and the, uh, the… One of the reels that I stumbled across, the guy was like, um, he was on the phone with the listing agent, and he's like: "Why don't you talk to your seller, and why doesn't the seller carry a note for me, and here's my terms?" You know, and it's like the property is up for 375, but I'll pay 500K over seven years. And the, the listing agent hated him.

Osman: Uh. So most agents are not… All right, so this is the problem with that, is that most agents do not have the training, do not have the personal experience, don't have the financial knowledge to understand how this deal structure gets the deal done.

Hamish: So…

Osman: And so in, when times are hard and it's difficult to sell houses, creativity abounds. But in today's environment, most agents are not well-suited to negotiating complexity. They only know the plain vanilla, and if you try to do something outside the plain vanilla, you, you introduce a lot of challenge challenges into the deal. And so, you know, I mean f- f- for example, we have somebody that wants to do a, a 1031 exchange on one of our listings, and what they want to exchange is not gonna be as attractive as what we're selling.

Hamish: I mean…

Osman: So how are we gonna work that through? We could potentially work it out, but let's start with making sure it's the right fit for the property, and that's step one, right? So let's not get ahead of ourselves and start getting excited about financing and the, and the difficulty in getting the financing done. Let's just focus on one step at a time. How do you eat an elephant?

Hamish: Good to know, but…

Osman: One bite at a time. But most agents, I'm sorry, they're not sophisticated. They don't know how to do this.

Hamish: It's, it's selling sunset.

Osman: Commercial agents, on the other hand, this is what they do, right? They, if they're gonna be really successful, they need to grow up in the world and see how complex deals can get.

Osman: And, and they are, they operate at a different level. Their deals take much longer to close. They get paid a lot more money, and for good reason, although I would argue that they're not getting paid much of anything in the last few years 'cause commercial has fallen apart.

Hamish: No, that's, um, very cool to know. And also, yeah, I think that's, uh, a, a lot of it too, is there are agents and they're like, "This is… I'm gonna operate within the CTB that I've seen day in, day out, and if it's not a conventional loan or cash, I don't know how it works, so I'm gonna tell this buyer that's literally o- you know, I'm gonna tell them no over the phone, um, for that reel that I saw."

Hamish: Just where they don't have the, the knowledge or the experience.

Osman: They just don't know what to do with it. I mean, we had a buyer a few years ago who wanted us to go shop, um, find sellers that were willing to do owner finance, and I had to tell him the reality of this, that it's a very small pool because they don't understand the advantages of it.

Hamish: That's right.

Osman: I understand it because of family experience- Yeah … and having an MBA in finance, and having worked on Wall Street, and having worked in the investment community, that I know you can structure a deal any way you want. Like, there's so many different ways to structure a deal. You're not l- Every, uh, everything is negotiable, but you have to have the vision for the moving parts to the negotiation, and if you don't understand it, um… And you're-- And let's face it, most agents are not very well managed or supervised, and their supervisors spend most of their time cleaning up messes.

Hamish: I was gonna say, and a bit of a background.

Hamish: Everything's negotiable.

Osman: That creative finance is, like…

Hamish: Not even a… It's not even in the, what is it? The headlights. Like, yeah.

Osman: Right, like, uh, like we have agents that don't even… Uh, we'll, we'll get to this. Uh, in fact, I think, I think this is now a good time to segue.

Hamish: Maybe we could-- Maybe we should. Yep.

Osman: Tales from the trenches, and, uh, Hamish has affectionately called this, "You shall not show." And it's really k- It's, it's sort of, I guess, a play from "Lord of the Rings", Gandalf, uh, "You shall not pass."

Osman: And I've run into this a few times, but most recently trying to get some, um, showings scheduled on, on some luxury property here in Boulder. And

Osman: In the listing agreement or buy agreement between the listing agent and the seller, the listing agent or a representative must be present at all showings.

Osman: And it's resulted in us just not seeing these properties. And, and so here's how, how that works, okay? I'll give you the pros and the cons of this setup so that you understand kind of a, a bigger picture than just the denied showing. So let me give you the listing agent side and the seller side of it first.

Osman: We also require agents to be present for our luxury listings, and we also make it clear to our seller that we will attend on a best case basis, because what we don't wanna do is deny a showing because we can't get there.

Osman: So what happens is we will say, "Overnight notice required for showings." They'll schedule it.

Osman: If myself or someone from my team can't get there, I'll call them and say, "Is there another time that would work for you? Because we need to be there." And if they say, "No, you know, this is what…" Like, we're on, we're seeing five showings. They're flying in this weekend, and then they're out.

Osman: Or, or they say, "You know, we'll get back to you on that."

Osman: Our advice to our seller and what we generally practice is we allow the showing, because we don't wanna miss out on a showing because we can't be there. So why do, why do we want to have… I'll let you answer this, Hamish. Why is it beneficial for the listing agent to be present at all showings?

Hamish: The main one that comes to mind is that the listing agent knows the listing better than the buyer's agent.

Osman: Is that the listing-

Hamish: Uh, the listing agent reviewed the competition, in theory, uh, and knows how it positions against it.

Osman: Yeah. Big, big, big theory guess. Yeah. Big assumption.

Hamish: Big theory, here at Halsteinstein, standard practice.

Osman: Yeah.

Hamish: Um, and that's, that's one of the bigger things. If you're calling this buyer's agent and they're like, "Mm, buyer's flying in. We've got this limited amount of time, time, and we're going to see five properties," you can be like, "Oh, I bet you're gonna go see, you know, Sunset Boulevard and Sunflower Street. Um, here's how this stacks up." And you should point out to your buyers that unlike the other two that you're going to see, this one has a bigger y- a bigger yard, or it's more private, or it's got better square footage, or… You can make the case, um, very well in person. You can charm the buyers if you're in person showing the property. But even if you can't make it, by being on the phone with that buyer's agent, you can sell the buyer's agent. You know, you can really make the case for the property. But to not let allow them in the door at all, you're just sh- it's like, you know, shooting yourself in the foot in a sense.

Osman: So I will-- I, I agree with all of that, that if you can't get there, you still have an opportunity to sell the property to the buyer's agent. And because of Click to Show, through Zillow and Redfin and other websites, you frequently get buyer's agents that know nothing about the house, know nothing about the neighborhood, know nothing even about the community. You'll get agents from Denver up in Boulder, and they are totally clueless. And sometimes you'll get, you'll get not even the agent that was Click to Show. You'll get somebody from their team who's a first-year agent that literally just opens doors and then closes doors. They know zero. And so they have zer- zero incentive either to help the buyer understand the property, because they are Click to Show 50 bucks a listing show agents.

Hamish: Oh my gosh, yeah.

Osman: And this is one way that listing agents are interrupting this business practice of some of the big discount brokerages, they're interrupting it by requiring the listing agent to be present. And one way around that is, is to, if they can't get there, which is possible, right? Because everyone has busy lives and busy work days, if the time that the agent has scheduled it doesn't work, you at least have the opportunity to educate the buyer's agent on the phone in a friendly and nice, not condescending, and not over-the-top way. And if the, if the buyer does show up, you also shouldn't be hanging over them, but you have an opportunity to turn on all the lights and be warm and friendly and bubbly with the buyer and say, "Hey, is it okay if I tell you a few things about the property?" And if they look evasive or, or standoffish, you can cut that short.

Hamish: There you go.

Hamish: And charm.

Osman: You should never follow them around the property when they are not interested, and you can read their body language.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Osman: Yeah. And that's the last piece I wanna add, that really good agents can read the room. They can read the vibe, they can read the body language between the buyers, u- often a couple.

Osman: Uh, they can, they can get the sense of what's going on here. They can slow down the process a little bit, and it's very difficult for most people without professional training to hide their enthusiasm. And y- and so it's incredibly beneficial in negotiation if that buyer decides they wanna write an offer, because y- usually they will r- reveal things about why they want this house, or they're moving to the area, or the kids they have, or details that then become beneficial to you in negotiation. You will get a sense of how much they want this, versus if you just get an offer lobbed in and you didn't attend the showing, you have no idea, as a listing agent, their level of commitment to this deal.

Osman: And there is so much to read in. A, a, body language, clothing, energy, vibe, like, uh, the, the communication between each other, the communication with their agent, how they treated you, all of this plays in. And, and I'll just… I'll put a cherry on this, and that was, I had a deal where my buyers played it so cold at the open house. They went to the open house, okay?

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Oh, that's right. Yeah.

Osman: And I told them, "Okay, this…" I told them to play it cool, but they played it so cold that the, the listing agent called me when we submitted the offer and said, "I'm really surprised you guys submitted, because your buyers, I thought they hated the place." And I'm like, "They definitely didn't hate the place. They were just trying to keep their cards close to their vest," and they didn't get it because the… 'cause there were multiple offers and they, they felt like even though their number was pretty good, they were worried about lack of commitment to the deal.

Hamish: Oh, no.

Hamish: Lack of enthusiasm.

Osman: And so we-- this is one of the reasons we tell our clients to not go to open houses. Um, and if they are gonna go to the open house, be warm and bubbly and friendly, but the problem is you're also revealing things that might compromise you in negotiation unintentionally. So this is our best practice. Call the agent back, try to be there, present for the showing, and this is particularly for high-end listings. This is not for the entry or even the mid part of the market where it's very difficult to practice this. But for luxury market listings, absolutely. But then if it's not possible to accommodate the buyer's schedule, l- allow the agent to show the home even without it. Because what happens is, if, if it was a property that was not

Osman: On their top list, right? And so usually what happens is we'll schedule anywhere up to six showings, and one or two of those are outliers. Maybe they're a little more expensive or not the right location, and if they didn't get a chance to see it on this first run, the probability of them coming back is actually pretty low, because it wasn't one of their first choices.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Osman: So they may not come back at all. They may just focus on the home that they got excited by, and you've lost the opportunity to potentially get a buyer, or worst case, get some feedback on your listing.

Hamish: Yeah, and this-- I mean, to our, uh, exact example, I think this, this showing that you're going on this afternoon will have been the third attempt or maybe even the fourth to get into this…

Osman: I mean, to the, to the listing agent's credit, they tried. They called back after. They were like, "How about this time? How about that time?" The problem was the times they suggested didn't line up with when my client was available again.

Hamish: They did try.

Osman: My clients are very busy people. They have a little one, they have an elderly parent, and they both have full-time jobs.

Osman: So finding time to show them property that works for them has been a challenge for the duration. Like, they often are just not available. We have missed a lot of listings that I sent them and we didn't get there fast enough because they weren't available. So that's just, that's just the nature. They're also okay with that, right? They know there's always another property. So…

Hamish: And I-- Yeah.

Hamish: You know, and like to, to this listing agent's credit, um, you know, maybe it's a hard rule from the seller. It's like, "I need you there. I don't trust anyone in the house without you there." Something to that extent, but… Right.

Osman: That's the only thing I can think of why they would do it this way.

Hamish: I mean, you'll maybe find out this afternoon. Yeah.

Osman: We're gonna find out, because this place better be full of really high-end art and delicate things, okay?

Hamish: Crystal walls.

Osman: Uh, crystal, like, vases, like… Or it has to be full of something that makes this, like, uniquely risky to have a stranger in your home.

Osman: I mean, I get it. It's a, it feels like a violation to have random people in your house.

Osman: Okay, I get that. I understand that. But part of selling a home means neutralizing all of the unique customizations so that it appeals to a broader audience, and if you have particularly valuable things in the home, we recommend you remove them.

Osman: Like, find generic art, right? Because it-- unless your art is the, is gonna be included in the sale process or you think this art's gonna influence them.

Osman: Often the art doesn't, by the way. It works the other way. We spend more time looking at the naked person on the wall- Yeah which is a really beautiful rendition of whatever in, you know, Technicolor, than we do looking at the house. So that's not a good idea to have-

Hamish: Or profiling the seller themselves, you know, off of the books they've got and the degrees. Yeah.

Osman: Right. Like we're- Right. The books… Right. It's just not u- it's not useful to leave your really expensive things in the house. So, so we're gonna find out at the showing and I'll report back to you, but I probably will not talk about it as a tale from the trenches.

Hamish: Circle back.

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah.

Hamish: And that's, um… I think that's pretty good wrap-up to things, but yeah, it's just-- it was very top of mind because it was just been this effort, so.

Osman: Look, I learned this technique from another agent in town, he's at Sotheby's, and this is a few years ago when we were looking in the four and five million dollar price range, and he had to be there for the showing and he was very charismatic and in- and very colorfully dressed and very enthusiastic about the house and meanwhile, you know, my attitude showing homes is like, "Let's look for the problems, let's find what's right, what's wrong," but I'm not selling it and h- and his charm influenced my buyers. And I, I've seen that now multiple times where it's a charming, charismatic a- listing agent and that will, will rub off on my buyers, and meanwhile I'm, I'm trying to help them make a smart decision. I'm not trying to energize them into spending money on a home they shouldn't buy, right? Like, I'm not the bubbly agent that gets you excited about a house. I'm the agent that tells you what's wrong with it and, and, you know, I sometimes get excited about houses, but I'm never

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Oh, they're…

Hamish: And you're like, "Yeah, I don't know."

Osman: Really that excited because for me it's just another asset class and I see my job as providing fiduciary, you know, due d-… I, I wanna advise you through due diligence, I'm gonna advise you through negotiation, and I know there's another house, so I'm not the one falling in love with it. If you fall in love with a dog and I tell you, "This is a dog for these reasons," as long as I said it once, I feel okay with it. Sometimes I'll say it twice. Yeah. But I'm not gonna say it three times. No. Because you're in love with the house and I think it's a horrible investment decision or it's a bad choice in general and I'm gonna have a hard time selling it in five to seven years, I'll say it but I just don't feel like I will shove that in your face because it's your decision, not mine. Like, I don't wanna be in conflict with you. I'm not the one paying for the house or living in it.

Hamish: Yeah, but especially. Yeah.

Osman: But doing my job means telling you the truth about what I think about the house, and that's not what a lot of agents do, especially listing agents.

Hamish: No. Yeah.

Osman: That's not their job. Their job is to sell it.

Osman: So…

Hamish: I mean, so you've s- yeah, you've had buyers where they're like, "Oh, I really like this one," and you're like, "It doesn't even fit your criteria."

Osman: Right. It doesn't fit your criteria. It's more than you ever said you would spend. And yes, that agent is adorable and cute and bubbly.

Hamish: You know? You just got charmed.

Osman: She don't come with the house.

Osman: No. She's not part of it.

Hamish: You probably won't even be working directly with them. Yeah. The closings aren't even together anymore.

Osman: You probably will never see her again. Right. You're like, "You're never gonna see her again." Yep. We might see her at closing.

Osman: Yeah. That's happened.

Hamish: Huh.

Hamish: Oh, luxury attached.

Osman: Okay.

Osman: Let's talk about a market update for the attached luxury market. And so

Osman: Newsflash, the high end has tons of listings and not a lot of buyers, and this is particularly true for townhomes and condos. And I, I think this is a rare opportunity, and I'm trying to get my head around it, and the reason I think it's a rare opportunity is that when you look at the spectrum of choices for townhome and condos, townhomes and condos, in Boulder in particular, there's a, there's a scarcity of what I call adult condos, right? There's a lot of student rentals that are run down, beat up, or were brand new and constructed for students. Okay. That, that is a, th- I would say that's 85% of the market.

Osman: And then there's a smaller percentage, maybe 10% of the mark- I'm, I'm throwing out these numbers, okay? But maybe 10% of the market that's kinda mid-market, that you're not gonna be embarrassed by as a 35-year-old bringing a date or your boss or a client in. Like, this is at like, like the building we're in, in uptown Broadway. This is a mid-market, um, adult rental. And then there's the luxury end, and there are so few of these. There's only a few buildings that I think qualify, and it, it is, there is a niche market for this, right? These are people that

Osman: Have family here in Boulder or own a business that requires them to come visit Boulder frequently, or maybe they're part of Sundance, right? Like this, there's a reason they're here, but this is not their full-time residence. Maybe they've got a grandkid, right? And they wanna be here for a few months of the year. Whenever they want, they wanna fly into town, be comfortable in their property, not in a hotel, have their things in the closet, have their car in the garage, and visit Boulder when it's opportune, and maybe when they're getting along with their in-law, like their- Yeah … their kids, right? Like, their c- their adult children or whatever their family story is. Right. Or they're flying… Yeah, and they, they, they also like to let guests stay in this. They let their family members allow guests to stay in it. Like, it's, it's not a rental.

Hamish: Yeah, yeah.

Hamish: The birthdays or graduations or… Yeah, yeah.

Hamish: The mature condo attached. Yeah.

Osman: Sure. But it, it's a pied-à-terre in Boulder. Yeah. There's not a lot of those options at the, at the higher end of the market, the luxury end of the market. So here's the data.

Osman: In Denver, and I, I, I decided to look at 1.5%, sorry, 1.5 million and up for both Denver and the city of Boulder, and… Oh, hold on. I just did… Let me make sure I got the data right. One second, 'cause I think I did the wrong price point for Denver. So here's a pro tip while we're, while I'm doing this in real time.

Osman: The, the, the MLS that covers primarily Denver is REcolorado, but the data flows through to IRES.

Hamish: High-rise, right.

Osman: Where the data gets murky is that some agents will code not Denver as Denver because they wanna sell it to you. They want you to think it's Denver, but it's technically not Denver.

Hamish: Oh. Yeah.

Hamish: I love this one.

Osman: And where they feel less confident in lying on the MLS about the address is on the county.

Osman: So the county field, Denver, Denver city and Denver county are the same thing. So the, the, the county field is what you should use on the MLS when you're searching for data, because agents are less prone to…

Hamish: And there's real differences in the… Yeah.

Osman: Yes.

Osman: Yes. Uh, but agents are less prone to miscode the data for their own benefit, so use county when you search. And when you search for the total number of 1.5 million and up townhomes and condos in Denver, there are 94 on the market, and of the 94 there are currently 16 under contract. So 16 out of 94 is 17% under contract. So I had the right data here.

Osman: Uh, no, I did not have the right data. 17%, uh, is, is the luxury niche for what's under contract in Denver, and then in the city of Boulder it's just 10%. Three out of 31, or roughly 10%, 1.5 million and up are under contract. So what does that mean? That means 90% in the city of Boulder are not under contract. And 86.6% are not under contract in Denver. That's a lot of disappointed sellers that are sitting there waiting and hoping for a buyer to come along. So this is, uh, if you are in this niche, you're looking for that lock and leave luxury experience in Denver or Boulder, this fourth quarter is probably the best time we've seen in a really long time, where you can lock in and acquire something that would've been half a million, a million dollars more four years ago and have your choice. Like, you c- so you can confidently walk away from a bad deal. You can negotiate aggressively.

Hamish: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Osman: I mean, I, I hate to tell it, I hate to say this, but luxury home sellers, you are sitting there with moribund inventory, high HOA dues.

Osman: Some of these developments have very few amenities.

Hamish: Yeah, not, not much to offer for those dues. Mm-hmm.

Osman: So if, it, you know, it's time to, uh, face the pied piper and realize that you have to be negotiable, and you have to understand the true market value of your asset, and you might be sitting on it for a really long time anyway. So here in Boulder, The Arrat, The Peloton, um, One Boulder Plaza all offer interesting luxury or near luxury options.

Osman: Um, and we're gonna talk about one at 17th and Walnut, Hamish, that I thought was more luxurious, but it's really a location play, and everything I've heard about the quality is pretty, pretty poor.

Hamish: It's totally a location play.

Osman: Um, and I… Yeah, they were ta- they told me they were really disappointed with that qual- And I haven't been to the building, I've only seen the outside.

Hamish: Is that what you got from those clients too?

Hamish: No, it's, it's pretty, um, uneventful.

Osman: Pretty crappy. I mean, we could just say it, right? And it's 'cause it's a closed deal, and we're not talking about an active listing.

Osman: Um, so anyway, the options are not, they're not a lot, and, uh, there's a lot, I, there's a lot more at the 1.5 plus than that mid-market choice. Uh, but there are choices, and sellers, especially in the fourth quarter, should be super negotiable, and now you know the data points on both Denver and, and the city of Boulder.

Hamish: Yeah. There's, um, right on Canyon, just before you kind of, uh, leave the urban area, call it, you know, there's the… Are, are there any luxury attached there?

Osman: Sorry, right on Can- Well, that's…

Hamish: Like right at, right as you head into the mountains on Canyon, like kind of by the, uh- Oh, okay.

Osman: On, I mean, that's The Arrat.

Osman: Yeah, that's where The Arrat's located. So I mean, this is a building.

Hamish: There you go.

Hamish: Oh, no, I'm a little bit more west, um, slightly past the, the Boulder Courts.

Osman: You know, there are some, there are some, there is some stuff that was built there in recent years. I haven't seen it come back to market anytime soon.

Hamish: Is there anything through there?

Hamish: But that would be… Yeah.

Osman: And I think some of those are attached, but they're more, they're more town home. They're not, like, a big building with condos. They're town homes.

Hamish: That's it.

Osman: Um, the name is escaping me. I think this was, um, Patrick Brown's development from a few years ago.

Hamish: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Osman: And we saw a few of those, and they're really nice. They're West Pearl. They're not on Arrat. They're not on Canyon.

Hamish: That's at West Pearl. Yeah.

Osman: Um, there's some stuff in the '70s that's a little bit west of The Arrat that has a really funky architecture to it, but it's stick frame construction and not luxury.

Hamish: Yep, dated at this rate.

Osman: Um…

Hamish: I don't wanna… We're getting winded. I know, I know.

Osman: I know. You keep pulling us afield into the longest podcast ever, but thank you for staying with us. It's time to move on to Sales of the Week.

Hamish: I know.

Osman: And in this segment, we, we can talk about these listings because they've closed. And one of the restrictions put on us by our regulator and by the MLS is that we're not allowed to actively-- We're not allowed to discuss publicly active listings. So if you're interested in our take on active listings, the only place we do that is in our newsletter or directly with our clients. That newsletter is sign-up only. That's the only reason it's sign-up is because it allows us to talk about active listings. I just put out a recent one, um, and hopefully going forward you'll see those come out more frequently.

Osman: But, um, in this segment, we're gonna talk about closed deals that illustrate certain price point, price points, locations, or simply just because we thought the house was cool and wanted to talk about it.

Hamish: Starting us off, it's, uh, 623 Terry Street in Longmont, and this is a House Einstein listing. It was listed by, uh, our very own Sophie Clore, and I think most notably, if you were to look at it, it had a long listing period. And this is an interesting deal. As I put some notes, um, here in the doc, I don't think there's anything here that I shouldn't talk about, right, in these bullets?

Osman: I don't think so. And I, you know more about this deal than I do because you went, you photographed it, you videoed it, you helped create the marketing, and I'm sure you were involved in the transaction much more closely, so lead the way.

Hamish: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Hamish: Yeah. Okay. I just wanna make sure I'm not doxing or something.

Osman: Start with location. What's, what's the, what's the, what's the deal with location?

Hamish: I mean, it's like, uh, it's, it's a quarter of a city block from the park, and then… I believe so, yeah. And granted, this was listed a little while ago, so the name of the park it might, may have escaped me.

Osman: Is that Roosevelt

Hamish: And then it's maybe like a block from, um, Old Town Longmont itself, like the, the Main Street drag. Um, and with these older homes, this is a 1910, uh, single-story ranch. It's a three bed, two bath. Um, it's, it's hard not to kind of romanticize a house like this. I mean, it was very cute. It's very kinda sleepy. Um, their spaces were decent, and actually it was a, a reasonably bright home to be in and film. And, um, uh, it was a two-day shoot. We went out, and this was during, uh, all of the smoke. I believe it was from the Aspen Acres fire. Then we came back out the second day, the smoke had cleared and, and we got the drone photos. Um, but a really neat location, um, and, and also kind of a cute home. The seller, I don't know, I think they replaced some carpet and, and did the paint, kinda gave it a little bit of a refresh and, um, you know, small is, small is beautiful kind of home.

Hamish: The, uh, interesting notes on the, the deal is this was a kind of commercial residential deal, to my understanding.

Osman: Park? So the zoning allows for commercial use.

Hamish: Right. Thank you.

Hamish: And so it was a, a small business loan, um, from this company, uh, Elevated Communities, which is a, a nonprofit that I think works with, uh, kind of disabled communities. I'm sure Sophie would be able to describe it a lot better, but, um- Being, and we were, we were talking about creative financing earlier on in the pod, uh, this was kind of an example of that. So, uh, being that it was partial commercial, it's going to be used as a, a live-work space. And, um, yeah, some of the notes from Sophie, uh, during our team meeting were that, uh, the appraisal system was entirely different. Like, their, their, uh, appraisal, um, period and the way the appraisers went through it, um, just completely unique. But, uh, as it… Yeah.

Osman: Well, I'm not sure if you caught that. So the property wasn't on the market that long, 11 days, and it then had a long closing period because of the SBA loan and the appraisal process.

Hamish: Thank you.

Hamish: Thank you.

Osman: And the fact that it was potential to use this for commercial purposes, and that's, that's who, what, what the, um, what the buyer intends to do is use it for mixed use it sounds.

Hamish: Thank you.

Osman: Um, that's why they needed an SBA loan and, uh, and I don't think it's a secret who the buyer is, but let's leave their name out of it. Um,

Osman: I don't think you already mentioned it.

Hamish: I did, yeah.

Osman: Oh, you did.

Osman: Maybe. All right, so whatever. That's fine.

Osman: Um, I don't think it's a secret.

Osman: And one thing I do wanna mention is that we-- this is the second deal we've done with this agent this year, and he did a great job. Um, the report card from Sophie came back strong, and we really appreciated his efforts actually representing me on the sale of a gr- uh, of a garage condo earlier this year. So Ryan Beckenhauer was the buy-side agent on this deal, who previously was my agent, m-my agent personally.

Hamish: And maybe a listener, actually.

Osman: Uh, and we also have worked closely with his partner, Megan, as well. So, um, really nice to see. You know, this is the thing about real estate in our region is that it is a small community. The agents that are actually doing deals have done deals with each other many, many times and know each other, right? The professionalism from one deal shines off on the next deal, or the lack of professionalism. And Ryan did a great job representing me, and I'm glad to hear. I had nothing to do with this transaction. Zero. Um, in fact, when I picked this listing, I forgot that this was even Sophie's listing. I'm like, "This is a great house because it's right next to Roosevelt Park. Photos look-" Well, I mean, it's a cute… It's got great elevation, cute architecture. It's a historic house, three bedrooms, two baths, no garage, which is a negative. The only thing I didn't really like was the paint color, right? I'm like, this paint color is kind of mauve. It's like Avon Lady pink.

Hamish: Oh, did you really?

Hamish: Wow, look at those photos.

Hamish: Mm.

Osman: Um, but hey, that might appeal to some people.

Hamish: Oh, yeah.

Osman: Um, but I just don't, didn't find it very attractive. But I, I chose this one to be in Fresh, not, not even realizing it was our listing. The kitchen itself is a little dated, but, but very smooth transaction. And kudos to both Sophie for well representing her client, and kudos to you, Hamish, for the great marketing, and also to Ryan for, uh, for working through this process. 'Cause, look, SBA loans are not a common thing on acquisitions for residential real estate, so working through it, uh, was a bit of a learning curve, I think, for everyone involved.

Hamish: That's awesome.

Hamish: Totally.

Hamish: Yeah. Thank you for providing the, uh, the gaps.

Hamish: The information and the gaps from my description. But yeah, 623 Terry Street, that is now sold.

Osman: Okay, our next one is 600 Arapahoe Avenue, Unit 5.

Osman: And this is right here in the city of Boulder. It's an attached condo. It's listed as a one-story ranch, but it's really, it's, it's, it's really just, it's inside a condo building. It's a super interesting location because it's extremely accessible to Boulder Creek and downtown. Built in 1974, so the design and architecture is a little on the dated side. But the price point, right, only $650K is what it closed for. It had been listed at, oof, listed at $850-- Nope. Oh, keep going up. Listed at $850 back in 2023. So this had a long slide from $850 down to $650, and it, it eventually sold for $620. No, sorry. It sold for s- Oh, no, I'm confused. Let me back up. I'm covering two listing periods.

Hamish: Mm.

Osman: Okay. So the 2023 listing was for $850, and that deal closed for

Hamish: Wow.

Osman: $620.

Hamish: Mm. Yep.

Osman: That one closed in 2024, so two years ago. And these people brought it back and relisted it in July at $700 and sold it for $650. So they sold it for $30,000 more than they paid for it. They got a really good deal in 2024, but, um, prices haven't really moved much. In fact, I would argue might even have come down a little bit, but they managed--

Hamish: A two-year holding period's not long either.

Osman: And they managed to eke out a little more than they paid for it, cover some of the c- cover commissions, basically, and get out of the deal. So not a bad thing to own a property for two years and have it not cost you much money. Thousand square feet, three bedroom, two bath, one car carport. Um, there is a bit of a, um, you know, Scott Carpenter Park. Not Scott Carpenter, sorry. Eben G. Fine is a real magnet for lots of people to come party all summer long.

Osman: There's also a bit of a homelessness and transient population issue that plagues the creek path right to the north of this. I don't know if it would really be that big of a deal parking your car on the street or in the car par- car port.

Hamish: Certainly not contrasted to, like, living on the hill, but still a risk, yeah.

Osman: Oh.

Osman: Oh. But still, you know, like, I wouldn't park a precious vehicle in the carport, right? Like, there is a chance somebody's checking doors to, you know, steal petty things from inside. It's possible it'll get scratched. I mean, it's possible somebody might pee in the carport space. I… You know, you're, you're pretty-- This location's a bit of a hotspot, so that's the one thing about, about it. But only $650 for 1,000 square feet.

Hamish: Oh, yeah.

Hamish: Yeah, they…

Hamish: When you're that urban, you know? Yeah.

Osman: HOA is reasonable at $540. You're not getting much for the HOA other than maintenance of the facility. Um, you might get water based on the age of this property. You probably do. Of course, you get insurability.

Osman: Um, you know, hazard insurance is part of pretty much every condo. It's a relatively s- So the thing about smaller condo developments is you have to be even more attentive to what's in the documents and what is, is not in the documents. Like, is there a reserve study? When was the last time it was done? But overall, I think this was well bought at $650, I-- and I think that this will be a really nice lock and leave and inexpensive experience to be right downtown.

Hamish: Yeah, I've s- Is it the next property?

Osman: Oh, hold on. Let me just keep going with this for one more second. And the last thing I wanna add about this building is some of these units are really dark. I've been in ones that feel like they're in the basement, and this particular one, if you look at the photos, looks pretty much like you're at garden level. You're not in the basement, at least through half of it. So it looks well lit, um, and it, it explains why it wasn't on the market for a really long time, even though the market for attached dwellings is super slow. It was only on the market for a little over two weeks, which is, you know, enough time for buyers to have seen it and, uh, and the buyer's agent didn't hesitate to negotiate a pretty sizable discount. So $50 grand below list is… I, I think this is a good deal. I would've bought this.

Hamish: Well, you know, good note on the, the level too. It looks like there is kind of this sunken, you know, like a half basement type. Yeah.

Osman: Half of it might be below grade. Yeah

Hamish: Um, at least at some units. And then,

Hamish: You know, you have to cross Boulder Canyon to get downtown.

Hamish: Uh, that said, Boulder's put a lot of effort into pedestrian infrastructure. Comparing that with our next one, um, for $25,000- There's more 1707 Walnut Street,

Osman: All right, well this is all you. Built in 2014, 17th and Walnut.

Hamish: Apartment 101.

Osman: It's a three-two at ele- almost 1,100 square feet and a $640 a month or $635 a month HOA. What's the story?

Hamish: Yeah, so I really like Sweetgreen, and sometimes for dinner I'll drive down to Boulder, uh, from my house in Westminster.

Osman: Yeah.

Osman: Just for sweet green? Yeah. It's that good?

Hamish: I really like their hot honey chicken. It's been a while since I've had it, but thinking out loud.

Osman: This is a restaurant, by the way. People don't know what you're talking about. Yeah.

Hamish: Yes, I mean, it's a chain. It's, um, getting pretty big. But, um, so yeah, I'd shoot down to Boulder for Sweetgreen, and parking on Walnut was one of the places that I'd be, and I'd see this… I thought that this was a rebuild. So the effective year built is 2014.

Osman: Yeah.

Hamish: Um, Osman and I looked into it a little bit yesterday, and they had like a, they called it a refresh and a refinish in, in 2024. Um, as far as I can remember, they just finished that project this year, um, at least from my memory of the chain link fences around it and, uh, all of the construction.

Hamish: So, you know, like the pictures and everything, you kind of expect some pretty nice finishes. It's right in the heart of downtown, but it's, I mean, it's under 700K, um, for this location.

Hamish: You're garden level, and, uh, one of the things we noticed…

Osman: Which means you have direct access from the street,

Hamish: Actually, yeah, you have direct access from the street. There's a lobby entrance for pretty much anybody not garden level. Um, so I mean, that's a benefit and a drawback, right? You know, you can have people trying to get into the…

Osman: Right? Right. So this, this photo of the lobby is not even the lobby that you would access.

Hamish: You could, but it's just extra steps, right?

Osman: But I would-- But can you access your unit from the lobby or do you have to onl- Yeah. Okay, so you, you have more than one access point. Yes. Okay, got it.

Hamish: You can, yeah.

Hamish: That's right. Yeah.

Hamish: Um, anyway, we were there with these clients and, um, sure enough, there, there's multiple units for sale, uh, all by the same agent and, um, you know, one-click showing.

Osman: Does he own them? Is that the agent that owns… Okay.

Hamish: I think she's just got the deal with it.

Osman: Yeah. Okay.

Hamish: Um, so we went and checked them all out, and the only units that really seemed worth it were the ones with the view on the third floor.

Osman: Two.

Osman: Hmm.

Hamish: Um, you know, you would, there are Flatiron views, and the third floor, um, showed well, but I mean, the layouts were strange, kind of U-shaped.

Osman: Huh.

Hamish: Um, it reminded me of this listing that we had. You might be able to look it up, listeners, um, through our Zillow history on 17th Street.

Osman: Oh yeah.

Hamish: But that, that listing, um, that layout was fantastic. Imagine they took out the center, so you had the, that U, but there was no kind of living room in the center.

Osman: It had a great layout.

Osman: Weird.

Hamish: Anyway, uh, finishes and fixtures, they were fine, but nothing screamed, um, uh, I mean, it was cost,

Hamish: Cost-minded finishes, right? So everything was kind of, um- Right, yeah, looks, looked the part, but very much margin in mind and, um…

Osman: Down to a price point.

Osman: I mean, this was listed, Hamish, at a million one in 2024. It did not sell.

Hamish: That I would not doubt. Well, well, yeah, the not selling part.

Osman: And they took it off the market in May of last year.

Hamish: A million and one?

Osman: It expired and they brought it back at nine hun- like at, at 900, and then they just continued to slide. Like by, by this summer they, they… it was down to 700 listed in September and then finally sold.

Hamish: A million and one?

Osman: Um, you know, so the interesting thing is that, yeah, it, it, yeah, the last change was June. So even at 700 it was on the market for two months, 60 days before a buyer decided, "Okay, 700, let me offer 675."

Hamish: Wow.

Hamish: I mean, the market, right, kind of decides the final price.

Hamish: Um, for a, for a garden level, uh, lock and leave, I mean, right there on, on Walnut, steps to Pearl.

Osman: I mean, Mr. Market wins in the end, but you think the, the finish quality is poor and the layouts are poor even at 675?

Hamish: At 675 it starts to make a little bit of sense.

Osman: Okay.

Hamish: But between the Arapahoe Ave unit that we just looked at and this one,

Hamish: I, I, I, I, this one does have that location trigger to it, like the, the benefit. But Arapahoe Ave, I kind of liked it being slightly more elevated off the ground.

Osman: I mean Ar- Arabesque is across the street, which I like, I, I really like.

Hamish: I'll give you that. Well, you, you talk to her, she'll want you back. It's been too long, you haven't gone.

Osman: She's, she's great. I lo- I love her. She is. Yeah.

Hamish: And the Sweetgreen's there for me. But no, Arapahoe Ave, if I was to live in the home, I would want that. If I were to use this as a crash pad, be downtown, um, I was only there for a little bit, uh, you know, Walnut Street makes more sense. But at 25K difference, um, it's really interesting. You've got these '70s kind of builds with the Arapahoe Ave, and then, you know, it says 2014, 2024, and they're trading 25K apart.

Osman: Okay.

Osman: Huh.

Osman: Okay.

Osman: All right. That's, that's the detail. Let's move on to our next one.

Hamish: So yeah.

Osman: 2850 6Th Street. So we're gonna zoom over to Newlands.

Osman: Pull this up.

Osman: And this is west of North Boulder Park,

Osman: Um, about a block west, and 6th Street is, is generally a very good street. The thing about Newlands is it's, it's east-west for the most part, which doesn't great, get great light, and the lots are a little smaller. 6,500 is pretty typical for a lot size. And this is a four bedroom, three bath built in the '50s. It looks so similar to our Alpine listing from a few years ago that I almost did a double take on the street.

Osman: Um,

Hamish: The, uh, fence design almost looks identical, like they had the same fencing company.

Osman: Fencing company was making the rounds. But overall the interior of the home looks pretty updated. The exterior looked like it had some funky, I don't know, side, the, what do you call it? The stucco or the, uh, it might be EIFS. Okay, that would be my red flag. Is it, is it EIFS?

Osman: Um, because it, the photos make it look pretty darn funky.

Hamish: Got some patchiness.

Osman: Um, but does have a nice garage. Okay, so these are rare things to have a one car detached. The wide angle makes it look like a huge garage. But 2,200 square foot house, two bedrooms on the main, two in the basement. Pretty solid location- What happened with this listing, I gotta wonder, because it, it was on the market in June at 2.2 and it went under contract right away but then buyer number one bailed and about 10 days after going back on the… 10 days later, it came back and it was re-listed at 1.95 So we're talking about a $2 million haircut after buyer number one bailed and then nothing occurs for almost a month, and by early August they've dropped the price to 1.8, so 150,000 below the last list price. And then finally, uh, it, it goes under contract and interestingly enough, sells for more than list at 25,000 over list. So I'd love to have the agents who are involved in this deal explain what's going on.

Osman: Um, there's also a giant concession disclosed, okay? So it sold for 1.825, but there was a $75,000 concession.

Hamish: Wow.

Osman: So un- unclear what that was for. There's no… That's a huge concession on a… And, and so it also is disclosed as closing costs paid by seller, but it's a cash deal.

Osman: So what closing costs could possibly be… So almost certainly inspection related, right? So,

Hamish: It's, uh… I mean, you talked about EFIS. That's in the price range.

Osman: So I think that might… Like, what exactly happened with this house? Why did buyer number one bail? Um, and why were there these huge dis- concessions, uh, for undisclosed reasons in this deal? It's all kind of a mystery. I know both agents we could call.

Hamish: All kinds of- Selling agent would tell us, I think.

Osman: Uh, the se- listing agent would definitely tell us. I think the buy-side agent might not based on, based on some past experiences.

Hamish: Yep. Yeah.

Osman: Um, who knows? We hold, we hold no, uh, negative thoughts about that at all, but, um, I suspect I'm not her favorite person. So,

Osman: Uh, that's just, you know, su- suspicion. But super interesting deal 'cause it… 1.8 for a decent house in this location, just west of the park.

Osman: Boy, it's not on the park. It's, you know, a block west of the park. It's super interesting, it's a mystery, uh, and there's not a lot of information that helps us piece it together. There is a seller's property disclosure online, so let me just glance at it really quick and see if… Was it updated? The seller's property disclosure is July 7th, and the first deal fell apart July 9th.

Osman: So in theory, I s- this, this sh- Well, that could have been the case, or they knew the deal was breaking up and they had to update the SPD, so now it's updated.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. They provided the SPD and then they bolted. Yeah.

Hamish: Mm.

Osman: Uh, moisture problems. Okay. I guess the upstairs kitchen sink filter valve seeped and was replaced.

Osman: Uh, ceiling in laundry room and east side of the basement repaired. Okay. That… But news- newsflash, if you own a house, at some point you're gonna have a water leak, okay? Like, that's not a deal-killing event.

Hamish: 1950S home.

Osman: Um, there's some settling in the sidewalk. There's some repairs to the retaining wall. The roof's 20 years old. Okay, that's a fixable problem.

Osman: Um, boy, that appears to be the only, you know, the only thing. Only one remote. Okay, great. That's really not… There's nothing scary that I'm seeing in this SPD. You know what's weird about this SPD is it looks like the old version of the SPD.

Hamish: I'd s- Hmm.

Hamish: Here's… Built it. The camera will…

Osman: Um, it's okay. It's not, it's not critical. It just, it just… Like, why does… It begins with section I.

Hamish: Oh, yeah.

Osman: Like, I just finished one. Where is section A with structural issues?

Osman: How come it begins on section I? Oh, no, there it is. Okay. Sorry, I'm confused. Building condition is… It says I is… Section one A is improvements. All right, I got confused. There's the structural stuff. There's nothing in the structural section that indicates big ticket items.

Osman: So,

Osman: You know, it's, it's a, it's a mystery, and we're just gonna leave it at that 'cause we just don't know.

Osman: But it was super interesting to see as a deal. Um,

Hamish: It's just, you're right, it's spitting image of that Alpine one we had.

Osman: It even has multiple radon systems, just like our listing ended up getting to get the radon s- system solved.

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Osman: So I think it was probably the same builder.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I'm looking at it, like, um, staircase, downstairs, upstairs look very similar. Smaller.

Osman: More updated.

Osman: Smaller lot, not an RMX one like our listing, but, um… And it, you know, it sold for more money.

Hamish: But- Yeah.

Osman: Okay, let's move on. It's a mystery. Agents involved, if you wanna be on the pod, we're ha- happy to have you up be on the pod to tell us what happened in this deal.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. History.

Hamish: It'd be great to.

Hamish: Oh boy, the tale of two listings.

Osman: Okay.

Osman: 182 Ridge Road, and I- it's, it became a tale of two listings because it has two MLSs, two MLS numbers, one at REcolorado, one on IRES. The one on, on IRES says it sold for 1.9 million and change with no disclosed concessions. The one on REcolorado says it sold for 2 million.

Osman: Which one is it? Also, oh, in this case, 2 million with an $87,000… Okay, so here it is. So take the 80… So the real price is the 1.913, which is the 87. She, they just didn't put the $87,000 concession.

Osman: Um, and it doesn't say exactly what the concession was for, but it was in the broker remarks, so that's in there. I don't… Normally, you put that $87,000 concession into the concession section, but instead it's in the broker remarks, so now we understand why it's a tale of two listings. But that's not why we chose it, okay? The reason I chose this listing is because it's in a location that there are not a lot of sales. So this is a Louisville deal.

Hamish: That's not why we chose it. No.

Osman: Uh, well, technically it's unincorporated Boulder County, but you're really close to Louisville. You're, you're kinda cl- maybe you could argue you're between the two, but I think you're really Louisville centric.

Osman: Built in the '60s, 1.25 acre lot. Really nice sized lot. Property had been on the market quite a while. Originally listed back in 2025.

Hamish: Uh, yeah

Osman: Oof. Was it 2024? Nope, April 2025 at 2.989, so let's call it a $3 million listing, and it eventually sold for just under 2 million, so there's your million-dollar discount. Um, why do we like this one? Well, that one-and-a-quarter acre lot, the 4,780 square foot size, the funky pools, and this is what really caught our eye. So three bedroom, five bath is weird, right? Three bedrooms and five bathrooms, like, it-- this house is huge at 4780 square feet, huge for Boulder standards, for only a three bedroom. So kind of that… You know, that's one of those things where if you're designing a house or updating a house, you may wanna think about the bedroom count.

Hamish: I agree.

Hamish: Seven five.

Hamish: Yeah. Five thousand.

Osman: Um, but if you look at the photos, there are, there are… It, it's actually quite attractive. I think the kitchen's really pretty. The, the po- the, the vaulted ceiling with the beams.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. It's very attractive.

Hamish: Large windows, like…

Osman: But, and then we get to the pools, and the first thing I notice is, okay, multiple pools and water slide.

Hamish: Yeah. I, I love it, for what it's worth. Like, I'm all, I'm so on board with this house.

Osman: Yeah. Like, this is-- It's like adult fantasy house, right? Like, this is a fun house with va- It, it's just… It's also unique.

Hamish: Yeah, no. Yeah.

Hamish: Sundance would be sweet. The movie parties? Yeah.

Osman: This could be a fun Sundance house for… Although we're too, too far out of the core to really be a Sundance house.

Osman: Um,

Hamish: Anyhow, it, I mean, yeah, it's 1960s bones, but, um, I mean, it's gorgeous.

Osman: It's…

Hamish: The accordion doors out into the back patio, like…

Osman: I mean, you're clo- super close to, to, um, Davidson Mesa for outdoor rec.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. They're a little far.

Osman: You're a little far from Louisville, the town of Louisville. You're a little far from the city of Boulder, so not exactly a walkable house. But the, I think at 1.9, you, they, they scored a pretty good deal on this house. Um, and yes, it's described as private resort, and yeah, that's what it looks like.

Hamish: Yeah. I'd say, um, the things, the, what caught our, uh, caught our eye was that pool, and then I'm like, well, I remember hearing that, like, insurance companies want fences around pools these days. And this, uh, the way the pool's, like, integrated into the backyard of the house, it doesn't look really… I mean, that would just ruin it, right?

Hamish: It, it, it, yeah, it'd kill the, uh, yeah. So, yeah.

Osman: You, I… It would be horrible to put a fence around this thing. Yeah. So yes, insurance companies like fences, and also they don't like pools in general, and I, I don't know what they think of w- for water slides.

Hamish: And then they don't know.

Osman: Like, I have no idea what, how often this is an issue, but… So this is why the contract to buy and sell has an insurance contingency in it, and if the house has a pool or unusual features, I would give yourself a little more breathing room on this deadline in the contract so that you can properly vet the insurance issue. Like, what's it gonna cost to insure this thing? Um, it's probably fine, but at the same time, don't assume. Build in a little extra time in the contract.

Hamish: That

Hamish: Off limits. Yeah.

Hamish: This is why.

Hamish: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, shoot, I mean, see if there's any pool companies and, and have them inspect the systems, right? Make sure that- Oh see what maintenance would look like. Oh. Yeah, yeah.

Osman: Oh, from a, from, from a property inspection perspective too, I would agree. Like, you would wanna build in a little time to make sure that this thing… 'Cause a normal property inspector's not gonna inspect the pool.

Hamish: Pool problems.

Hamish: No, they'll be like, "Pool loaded. Contact professional."

Osman: Right. Exactly.

Hamish: You know?

Hamish: Um, one other thing I'd say is, like, uh, at this price or given that it's not a very walkable location, I'd ra- I'd rather a paved driveway. You know, something a little bit, um, easier to get in and out of. It looks stony from the photos. I could be incorrect. But, um, yeah.

Osman: Yeah, it's a stone driveway.

Hamish: Pretty house. Catching.

Osman: It's, it's, it's cool.

Osman: It's, it's funky. It's interesting. Um, the photos, I think, don't necessarily tell the whole story, and I kinda wish this… Like, we do listing videos for every one of our listings, and I don't think there's a link to a listing video.

Hamish: Mm-mm.

Hamish: The floor plans, you can piece it. It's, it looks like it's, I mean, it's a rambling ranch with a basement.

Osman: Right. Yeah.

Osman: Okay, next, and this is our last one. It's another Newlands deal, and it's a Newlands deal above three. So this is where these deals are few and far between. This particular property was listed in April at 4.2.

Osman: It was cut to just under 4 million in June. It went under contract more than two months later, so the market had a long time to look at it, and it sold for just under 3.8. It sold for 3,755,000.

Hamish: And, uh… It could be.

Osman: It's a big house on a relatively small lot that you will probably not be able to build again. And sure enough, the age of construction suggests that permits were filed just as compatible development was coming into play, limiting homes like this. So this is one of those poster child houses for compatible development. That's an ordinance that was passed at this time period to limit the size. They, basically, people didn't want large hous- large houses on small lots, and even though it's not your lot, they wanted to tell… They basically forced that through city council, and city council supported it at the time. So this is one of the last of those, of the generation of these really l- larger homes in Newlands on small lots.

Hamish: Still standing.

Hamish: I think, uh, 3181 9th Street. I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but for the second one on the- Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Osman: Oh, the address. Yeah. Thank you, Hamish. 3180 and 1 9th Street, 5,465 square feet, six bedroom, six bath, constructed in 2008 with a two-car detached garage. Four bedrooms on the upper, one in the basement. This checks all the boxes. I don't know where the sixth bedroom is. It's not in the description, but hey, there you go.

Hamish: All of them.

Hamish: Under the stairs.

Osman: Might be.

Osman: Um, you know, and slightly larger than normal lot. It's not, I'm not crazy about being so close to the corner of, or on the corner of 9th and Forest. Like, that's not great. But you still have a very sizable family-friendly house in Newlands, uh, under four, and this home a couple of years ago would've been well above four. It's c- it's slid down.

Hamish: Super, yeah.

Osman: Um, but let's talk about the house itself. I, personally, I'm not… You know, it, this is where the architecture is a giant box on top of a box with some, you know, Ionic columns on the front, Greek columns to wrap it out. Um, I do love the front porch.

Hamish: Man.

Osman: Uh, although the column style I'm not crazy about.

Hamish: I like it. I'm… It's, no, it's working on me, this house. It looks almost historic.

Osman: Okay.

Hamish: The, it's cohesive throughout, at least from what I can tell.

Osman: May- maybe it's just the col- I agree with you on that front. It definitely looks historic even though it's a 2008, so it does fit the character of the neighborhood, if you will. I know that's a, you know, battle cry for the progressives to come after you. But the color, you know, I think the issue for me is just that the trim is too close to the color palette of the primary paint, and it just looks very understated and kind of boring on the outside.

Hamish: All the way. Yeah.

Hamish: It's very 2008 color schemes. Yeah. Yeah. Super. Color schemes. Yeah. But

Osman: Yeah. The color scheme looks like they never changed the paint. But the interior, all the finishes and fixtures are, are enduring, right? Like, it looks like a historic house.

Hamish: The- Yeah.

Hamish: I think-

Osman: I think the biggest issue I just have is it's just kind of boring as a house.

Hamish: Enduring's a great word for it. And yeah, no, tot- uh, I mean, like, this is not a-- understated's the word, all these things, like… But what it is, uh, you know, reasonably tasteful, um, um, for me. Of white picket fences, man. It's the, it's the… Right. Yeah.

Osman: Extremely tasteful.

Osman: I mean, when our biggest complaint is the paint color, Hamish, we love the house, right? Like, that's very impressive.

Hamish: Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Osman: So I think it's pretty well bought, decent discount. Um, 3.755. Not uncommon to see 8 to 10% discounts in the fourth quarter, and we're now approaching the fourth quarter. This closed right before the beginning of the fourth quarter.

Osman: Um, and a relatively rare house. When, and when-- So the thing I think is import- what's important for buyers to understand is how regulation has pinched the balloon and created a sub-market for a house like this for people that understand its rarity.

Osman: Provided you can deal with Forest Avenue, which is a little busier, I think this is a home that will serve the buyer well financially, as well as be a great place to live for them and their family in the long run.

Hamish: Yeah. I'd say you'd see it go quicker or for more if it were any further west, um, you know- Oh, yeah closer to the trails. Yeah. That's another factor.

Osman: Oh, yeah. Oh, that's another factor for Newlands. We have a whole video on Newlands, and one of the things to think about is proximity to the open space on the west, which is sort of like waterfront property. The further you are from Broadway and the closer you are to the open space, the more valuable your house generally is.

Hamish: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Other things. Yeah.

Hamish: Yeah. And that video is now going to be linked below in the description.

Osman: All right. The one exception I wanna make to that story is the lower side of 4th Street. The low side of 4th Street, which is the east side of 4th Street, is general- I mean, it, there are some fantastic houses there, but you wanna be careful because some of them lack privacy.

Hamish: Well, I guess that-

Hamish: Close. Okay.

Osman: And it's not a great spot to build a glass house, as, as one of our colleagues discovered, uh, and an owner discovered not so long ago. But we have another, we have a, a seller, actually, a potential seller who's on the east side of 4th Street, who- whose house is extremely private and extremely nice. So nice, they remodeled it, and then I don't think they wanna sell it anymore. But they might for the right price. So if you're in, if you want something that is similar in size and nature, um, on 4th, we might have something for you.

Hamish: All right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Hamish: Yeah. Certainly not currently. Right. Yeah.

Hamish: Reach out. We're here to help you make a smarter real estate decision.

Osman: Yeah, reach out. You know where to find us.

Osman: Okay, shameless self-promotion. Let's move on, Hamish.

Hamish: We ain't hard to find.

Hamish: So- Please. Yeah.

Osman: We just listed a unit at Gold Run with a six-time client, I believe, which is amazing. We so deeply appreciate your trust in our team and our long-term working relationship.

Osman: Um, and this is a relatively entry-level condo, but that doesn't mean we don't pull out all the stops, which includes a full listing video, professional photography, and, uh, and a marketing budget. We're spending money to push this listing. But the listing itself deserves it because it is on the top floor in an elevator building with garage access, and it has a loft. So the thing about Gold Run is there's a variety of buildings and layouts and, and market differentiation between garden-level units, mid-level units, and top-floor units.

Hamish: Some 3D tour.

Osman: The development itself is fantastic because it has the amenities that are only on par with The Peloton. And The Peloton has HOA dues that are much higher than Gold Run. And Gold Run has a better location. It's right on the bike path. You're right next to CU.

Osman: So it tends to have a high density of students, but it's not just students living there. There are young professionals. There are older people living there as well. It-- And, and the amenities make it worthwhile. You get value for your amenities. And this particular unit, the top floor doesn't have any upstairs neighbors. The loft creates additional flex space, if you will. I'm sure legally you can't call it a bedroom, although I can tell you that lots of people that have lived in these two bedroom plus loft spaces have, have turned the loft into a, a sleeping space.

Hamish: So can I- Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Osman: I'm not saying that's legal, but I'm saying it's not uncommon to find, uh, three 20-year-olds that share a place like this.

Hamish: And to your point about student density, the entire time I property managed, um, for some of these Gold Run units, I don't think we had a single student. I think we only had young professionals. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Osman: That's true. Yeah, there's quite a few young professionals. We used to manage a listing in Gold Run.

Osman: Um, I also wanna make a distinction here. The reason we're talking about an active listing is because it's our active listing.

Hamish: Our- Good point. Yeah. Hey, this is ours.

Osman: So you, you might be wondering why we're talking about this.

Hamish: My, my, my.

Osman: It's because it's our active listing. And to point, one of the first interested parties in this place is somebody who already owns a Gold Run, but they bought a unit on the first floor, and now they know why the first floor isn't so great, and they wanna be on the third floor. Well, no… Yeah, we know. It's so much better.

Hamish: Yeah. Promo. Power outage. Mm-hmm. At that point. Yeah. A lot. I don't even know why.

Hamish: Wanna get on the first

Hamish: Floor. Yeah. It's a coveted, uh, it's a coveted level. It's a coveted story of Gold Run, you know?

Osman: I happen to have lived at Gold Run the very first summer I lived in Boulder, and it's a fantastic place to live. Like, the ability to just cruise down that bike path and go downtown is so nice.

Hamish: Especially- Very cool. Yeah.

Osman: And there's a little swimming hole right in the entrance of the, of the bike path, which used to be where we'd… Well, it used to be. I mean, prior to it, it becoming, you know… Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend it today, but back in the day, that's where we used to swim all the time with our, when it was where we took our golden retriever.

Hamish: That's a swimming pool?

Hamish: Yeah, you don't know.

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah. All the- Yeah.

Osman: In fact, we even named it his swimming hole, and it was on Google Maps for a little while as his swimming hole.

Osman: They, they've since corrected Google Maps. Yeah.

Hamish: That's actually so cool.

Hamish: Yeah. So that's Gold Run. Uh, check it out.

Hamish: Go see it. Yeah.

Osman: Check it out. That's our shameless self-promotion segment. Now let's move on to hot takes on the news.

Hamish: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Let's move on.

Hamish: Yeah. Boy, are you tired of power outages when it's hot and windy? There's a light switch. It's over. Yeah.

Osman: There's a lot of people complaining about power outages in Boulder. I feel like it's on Reddit and on Facebook all the time now.

Hamish: All the time. And so I think, uh, to my, uh, you know, the link's in the description if you wanna get the full story. Um, more or less the Colorado Public Utilities Commission is taking a serious look at these, um, preventative shutoff power safety, uh, however you wanna call them. Junior-- Yeah, public safety power shutoffs are, is what the utilities are calling them. Um, the utilities commission is like, "Great, um, but we should probably have some framework in place." So, um, they're looking at putting together rules more or less if you are going to have, uh, public power shutoffs. Why are you going to have them? What are you doing to fix them? Uh, what's the expected impact? Are you having independent, you know, reviews of these things? Um, I think it's a, a-- To me, you know, my hot take is, yeah, good. Um, you know, the, we've talked about Xcel supposedly undergrounding lines forever and, um, kind of, I mean, Boulder's got a ton of above ground, uh, transmission lines and power lines, uh, throughout it. So rather than Xcel being like, "Ah, you know, we'll just kill the power that day," hey, how about we, um, have so- have a roadmap in place to kind of create a more resilient infrastructure for these wind events?

Osman: Well, I can tell you Xcel has hired a ton of contractors to take down trees and trim trees all along all of its power lines in the mountains.

Hamish: Mm. Good.

Osman: Like they-- I, it's every day up where I live in Four Mile Canyon, the tree trucks are working, and they are, they are trimming aggressively to the annoyance of some of the neighbors up there. But look, what do you ex-expect Xcel to do, right? They, they do not want the liability of starting a forest fire, and so they are doing the be- I mean, well, we… And which ultimately we pay for. So I get it, and at the same time, I also feel for the people that are really, uh, angry at Xcel for turning off the power when there isn't even a wind event.

Hamish: Good.

Hamish: They paid for that, you know? Yeah.

Osman: Um, you know, if you can afford it, y-I would strongly recommend getting yourself a home battery generator. So you, so you could, you could buy a whole house generator, okay? But that's expensive.

Hamish: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Battery generator.

Osman: You could also buy one of these Bluetti or Jackery home batter… Like they're basically designed for camping, but they're also a solution.

Hamish: I mean, they're getting huge in capacity now.

Osman: The capacity keeps going up, the prices keep coming down, and you don't have to permanently install it. You can simply just run a power cable into your house from a window and power your fridge and power your Wi-Fi.

Osman: And let's face it, if your food's okay and your Wi-Fi's going, as long as you're not freezing,

Hamish: Or medically attached to a device. Yeah.

Osman: You're probably gonna be okay.

Osman: Or medically attached to a device, a CPAP machine or something else like… This is probably enough to get you through a power outage.

Osman: And if you add a $400 solar suitcase to the setup, you can probably recharge off the solar or y- or you could spend 800 to $1,000 and buy a gas generator and run it for four hours and r-recharge your house battery. So there are so many solutions to this problem on the individual level.

Hamish: Oh, yes.

Osman: Um, and I get it, right? Like one of the selling points for our Alpine listing was that whole Tesla Powerwall, and we told the, the buyer, we marketed this, that let me show you how many times the Powerwall has come in in the last two years. And it was something like 17 times. It was some crazy number.

Hamish: Oh my gosh, yeah.

Hamish: And that was like before the insane prevalence of this. Yeah.

Osman: That was before all of these power shutoffs have been happening. So, um, I'm glad that…

Hamish: And their, their words were they didn't even notice power was out until they looked out and the neighborhood was dark.

Osman: Right. They don't even know the power's out because the Powerwall powers it instantly. Um, and I think, uh, it's just, it's just, it's just a fact of life for the times, right? Like I don't know what else to tell you. I'm glad the, the, the pu- the Public Utilities Commission is looking into it.

Hamish: Mm.

Osman: I still want Xcel to turn off the power because a, a runaway fire is far worse than the inconvenience of not having power for a few hours.

Hamish: Without a doubt. Yeah. It's-- I, I don't think, hmm, you know, people have been grumbling about the public safety power shutoffs. Um, but I think everybody's back of the mind, I mean, Marshall Fire is still fresh, so it's like, "Oh, grumble, grumble," but, hmm, you know, kind of net positive.

Hamish: It, it, it's worth the, what is it? The juice is worth the squeeze or the, yeah, the preventative measure.

Osman: Totally.

Osman: Niwot Incorporation, 4,300 residents of Niwot are gonna decide whether or not to incorporate the town of Niwot.

Osman: What are the pros and cons of local control? And boy, I don't live in Niwot. We have clients there, and I would probably be a no vote because right now they're only taxed at the, at the county level, and you incorporate, you're then gonna be taxed at the town of Niwot. It's also gonna add on some taxes, and what do you actually get for those taxes?

Hamish: Wow.

Osman: What local control do you actually benefit from?

Hamish: You get more government.

Osman: You get more government. And so I th- and I, I think Niwot is adorable as it is. Leave it alone. That's my personal take on Niwot, and I, I predict it's gonna fail because of people's-- people that, uh, don't live in the city of Boulder take pride in the fact they're not sucked into Boulder politics, into the prices. I mean, do you see what's happening?

Hamish: They do.

Hamish: Into the stereotype of Boulder, like…

Osman: Boulder's trying to hood… Like the government of Boulder wants a blank check for $400 million of buildings they don't… That they haven't looked into alternatives to new construction. They just want the city, the residents to pay for that, and this is the end game of local government in some cases.

Osman: Longmont is really well-managed. Completely different story.

Hamish: Right. And we'll probably have a guest on to talk about that.

Osman: At some point, I hope.

Hamish: Soft Ts.

Osman: I hope we can get that person on.

Hamish: Soft Ts.

Osman: But in the meantime, um, all I can say is we'll find out in November what's gonna happen. But if you happen to live in Niwot, you will see yard signs, you will see people pushing for this. And I wanna note, if you click on this article, okay, that's in this, in the show notes, this is what really stood out to me, that the efforts to incorporate have raised about $100,000, and that money is also structured as a loan to the Niwot Incorporation Committee, which is a separate nonprofit with 42 contributors.

Osman: And it's, it's one of these things where

Osman: You wonder who's doing the contributions, what do they have to gain from this? And they're not even donations, they're loans.

Hamish: Hmm. Hmm.

Osman: Like it's, uh, which I understand is how politics is often funded. But this, this says something. There, there's something going on here that I…

Hamish: Change is coming either way, said Nick a little.

Osman: Yeah.

Hamish: Later than I… Sorry to cut you off, but it's just… No, I'm with you. Um, I've gotta compromise.

Hamish: We call it the town of Niwot, and nothing else changes.

Osman: What?

Osman: It's been… That's, that's what it-- It's already called the town of… People call it Niwot. Like it, it has no impact that it's not technically a town, it's part of unincorporated Boulder County. Zero impact.

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah.

Hamish: There we go, you know?

Osman: I guess the roads. People are unhappy about the roads, and so there are ways to fund that, and this article covers that.

Osman: But at the same time, the roads are supposed to be maintained by the county, so…

Osman: I, I would be voting no. And I love Niwot. Don't be surprised if I buy a house in Niwot sometime in the near future.

Osman: But the fact that it would incorporate, if it incorporated, would make it less desirable, not more desirable.

Hamish: And stay tuned For the, uh, Niwot Civil War between the in-incorporatists and the anti-incorporatists.

Osman: And we'll add if you have a strong opinion about this and are involved in the organizing or, or the an- the, the, the anti-organizing, either side of this, then, uh, then feel free if you wanna be on the pod. We'd love to have you on so we can hear your version of this.

Hamish: Please.

Osman: Let's talk about AI photos. There's a new study that says 90% of AI photos on real estate listings are not disclosed as AI photos.

Hamish: Talk about AI photos.

Osman: And if you've paid any attention to online forums about real estate listings, there's a lot of complaining about AI photos being disingenuous, misleading, wasting people's time.

Hamish: There's a lot of- I'm gonna read it a little bit more. It says here… Oh, I got hit by a paywall.

Osman: Hamish, what do you think?

Hamish: So it's including in this umbrella AI-edited listing photos.

Osman: Yeah.

Hamish: And to that, I wonder what depth do they mean. Um, Photoshop has had this tool now for, like, four years called Generative Remove, and it's, um, you know, like a pimple remover on steroids. It is incredibly, uh, useful. You know, say the yard sign's installed and you want to get it out, you can select a box over it and it'll remove a yard sign for you.

Hamish: That I can see making this 90% figure or contributing to that 90% figure, because technically it's AI and it's adding into it. But where I think we're thinking, you and I, is where the, um,

Hamish: A direct example, I follow a real estate photographer in North Carolina, and they posted…

Osman: Do you wanna tell us who this is so we can…

Hamish: Nope.

Hamish: I don't.

Osman: You don't know? You don't- I don't know. Okay. All right. You got it. That's okay.

Hamish: No, I don't want to share. I- Okay. Yeah, I don't… For us in, um,

Hamish: The, the MLS rules that we abide by is our editing is not allowed to change material facts.

Hamish: This, uh, real estate photographer that I saw- Mm-hmm.

Osman: That's in the MLS rules? Okay, I didn't even know they had the rules. They do. Oh, I didn't know they had it. That's great.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I had to look it up because- I- Yeah. We're not allowed to making, like, material edits.

Osman: They do. They don't let me

Hamish: Um, so for me, I take that to mean, like, if there's a AC vent in the wall, I can't Photoshop that out, right? There's a vent in there. That's just a material fact. This, um, real estate photographer shared their before and after, and they removed, like, the AC condenser from the outside of the house. They were removing, like, trim pieces and all sorts of stuff to make the house more presentable and, and look better. And I'm like, well, that starts to cross the threshold for me ethically of, like, misrepresentation.

Hamish: And, and I think-- I mean, you've seen it in the showing that you went on at Martin Acres home that was, the photos looked fantastic, and then you needed a respirator because it was so mold infused, uh, on your showing.

Osman: . So the, the lens I have on this is to ask yourself, is, is the MLS listing an advertisement or is the MLS listing a material list of property characteristics?

Osman: And back when we had commissions in the MLS, it was also a legally binding, um, leverage point to make sure agents got paid because the commission was disclosed as whatever percent on the MLS pri- and privately, not to buyers and sellers, but to agents could see. And because that was listed as that percentage, that's what the buyer's agent was paid without having to, like, write it into the contract to buy and sell.

Hamish: Like representation. Oh.

Osman: And so now we've gone into a phase where

Osman: Some people are convinced it's marketing. And so marketing for, let's say, a new product is showing its most attractive sides, right? Like it's, it's heavily edited, professionally lit, and frequently misleading, right? Like even when you go and buy, uh, I think there's some law that passed because if you go and buy like a, like a, like a food product, it will say on the food product label that this has been enlarged to show texture, right?

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Osman: And I don't think that those rules have really come down completely to that granular level with the MLS.

Osman: We've operated on a principles basis, which is c- not gonna change something material like removing an air conditioning condenser, but we will adjust the lighting.

Osman: We will airbrush away a s- a, like something like a stain on a carpet, okay?

Hamish: Totally, yeah.

Osman: Because it's visible and obvious the moment you walk in that there's a stain on the carpet. Maybe the stain on the carpet. I'm not saying that's always the case.

Osman: Maybe. Like there's an ethical decision that has to be made that will… And this is all about the buyer's journey.

Osman: If we make it look so good, and then they walk in the door and they're immediately disappointed, or they're immediately disappointed by the cur- from the curb appeal, like you airbrush in a bright green lawn, right, and mature landscaping, and then they roll up and they're like, "This doesn't look anything like the photos," you're not gonna sell the house to these people because they've started their journey on a real negative.

Hamish: Yeah, and it's a- Like this. Yeah. You're not gonna sell thousands.

Osman: And, and people make their decision on whether to buy or not within seconds of, of walking up to the house. So you do not wanna have an experience for a buyer that is profoundly negative because you misled them on what this house really looks like. So that's our-- That's been my principle. Like it's- Yeah it, it could be too much. I had a seller a few years ago who had a broken window on one of the garage windows. And so this is before AI. I literally took about an hour to make some adjustments to the garage, and he said, "100% I'm gonna do it. Like, I'm not asking you to do this.

Hamish: But there's- Mm-hmm. That's hard. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Hamish: Get the perspective right and then put in… Exactly.

Osman: I will replace the glass. It looks weird." And he was right, and he did repl- did replace the glass. But, um, having the physical skill set to make those edits, I was willing to do, provided the seller agreed to do the thing.

Hamish: That's the big-- So I had a listing shoot recently, and there was a mark on the wall, and I'm like, "If you show me proof that, that you cleaned that up, I'll Photoshop it out, you know, after the fact." But there's a liability side to it that's doesn't feel like it's getting enforced.

Osman: Right.

Osman: How do you feel about staging?

Hamish: Uh, AI staging or virtual staging, kind of the umbrella term.

Osman: Yeah, virtual staging. Yeah. Virtual- Yeah AI staging. I mean, it's all AI, so it's virtual staging

Hamish: Um,

Hamish: Yeah, I've seen like full AI stuff be completely wonky. Like, you'll look at the picture, um, split second, like a glance, and you're like, "Looks good." And then you look closer and the desk is like backwards against the wall, and there's a chair, you know, completely facing the wrong direction.

Hamish: Um, from like a user experience of if the buyer's looking at the listing, I think it can be beneficial, but the dimensions of the rooms can be misrepresented with the furniture that's

Osman: There's a liability side.

Hamish: Generated in there. Yeah.

Hamish: Um,

Osman: I mean, that's my biggest concern is that when you don't pay for p- actual staging, that's our preferred approach.

Osman: Pay for actual staging. We have a great stager. They charge reasonable prices. Sh- she does amazing work, and then the photos represent reality. So when the buyer walks in, that's what it looks like.

Osman: And you don't create liability for the seller that the dimensions aren't what you said it would, and you show a whole living set in a room that can't have a living set.

Osman: You know, I, I don't know if there have been lawsuits over this, but you're opening yourself up to a very unhappy buyer, and so you have to be really careful with this stuff. Um, and I do see some agents labeling their, it's almost like before and after photos, and it says virtually staged on it. I mean, that's a- an okay middle ground, but as long as you show both photos.

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah, that's, I think- Both ways.

Osman: If you're not showing both photos, I feel like, boy, you are really opening yourself up to some problems in the future with this buyer.

Hamish: You need both.

Hamish: What is this, a living set for ants? You know?

Hamish: But, um, you know what I wish? You've seen, like, uh, there's tons of products out there, um, that like advertise like image editing and things, and they'll let you slide between the original and the edited. I'd want that for virtual staging. Like if there was some sort of mechanism.

Osman: We can't do, we can't do it on the… MLS is not capable of that, but I hear you.

Hamish: No, no, and, and like Zillow isn't either, but how cool would that be? You know? Oh, yeah. Slide back and forth.

Osman: That would be fine. That would be acceptable. I have seen some where like, like so they, they remodeled the interior, and they showed the kitchen before and after, and I'm like, "That, okay, I believe it." It might look like that when it's been remodeled, and it, it's, it, it's a conversation to have with a seller, and I would wanna document the, the aspects of that that might create liability, um, in the marketing of this property, and make sure the seller understands that this is also their liability, not just our liability in taking on this risk.

Hamish: That's cool.

Osman: Um.

Hamish: And d- not to draw it out, but I'm not seeing enforcement over this stuff. I think it's, um, the Wild West right now.

Osman: It's totally the Wild West.

Hamish: And, and that doesn't stop us, I think, from having our own principles and ethics about it, but it's a little concerning to see it to this extent of, of just free and loose right now. You know?

Osman: 100%, And that's why I think that rather than having a lot of hard rules, agents need to be responsible and act from a place of principle, and that is don't do so much to this listing's marketing that you mislead the buyer.

Osman: Um, do not lie visually or otherwise about the characteristics of this home, and understand that the MLS is both a marketing vehicle and contains characteristics of the home that are presented as a material fact. Even though you are disclaiming them everywhere, you're still presenting them. The buyer is assuming them to-- the listing will mean if it says 1,500 square feet and you're using the tax assessor as 1,500 square feet and you disclose that that's the source of the square footage, great.

Osman: You sort of covered yourself. If you've listed it at 1,700 square feet because you think it's bigger

Hamish: Get it into that trough where the buyers are looking, right?

Osman: To, but you haven't actually had an appraisal to back this up, you're creating massive liability for your seller, and people really care about square footage.

Hamish: Boy, that echoes through to like market analysis and price per square foot and median averages, you know, if that sells and bakes into the MLS, if you lie about square footage.

Osman: So th- there's a balance between marketing and

Hamish: You know?

Osman: Telling the truth about the characteristics of this house, and, and also the most important thing is remember they're gonna walk into the house. Nobody buys a house without-- I mean, almost nobody buys a house without walking into it. We have sold many homes with buyers that are from out of state and represented them, but we do the best to make sure they get a sense of what this home is really like, and we want them to fly in during the inspection period, um, to make sure they saw it because, boy, buying it sight unseen is crazy talk.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Yep. Oh, yeah. Uh, it is.

Osman: And even more so now in the era of AI listing photos. All right, let's talk about our last news story. You're almost there, dear listeners. Hang in there. Um, so Denver just scaled back a proposal to allow duplexes, triplexes, multifamily houses citywide to only within a quarter mile of transit corridors, and that within a quarter mile of transit corridors is because that's what the state is mandating. But Denver originally was talking about doing it citywide, and they've dialed that back. And boy, is it controversial, and this article talks about why it's controversial. It's linked in the show notes. It's some- from The Denverite. But I wanna bring this into Boulder for a second because there's a lot of steam being let off around 1084 Grant Place. So this is in Ro- the Rose Hill neighborhood. It's on the corner of, uh, College and Grant. So it's just, um, just south of Columbia Cemetery where Meet the Spirits is.

Hamish: Oh, okay. Yep.

Osman: And this location is full of historic charm and beautiful homes, although lots of homes are not historic on Rose Hill.

Hamish: Oh, wow. Yeah.

Osman: And the Grant Place home was, I think, acquired for 900,000, and the investor who bought it is putting in place a 5,000 plus square foot duplex, supposedly with 13 rooms and 13 bathrooms. I haven't actually found the building permit. I started looking for it before the pod and ran out of time. But the whole neighborhood's up in arms, and you can see why by the, the, the noise map. The noise historically has stopped at 9th Street, and now the noise is starting to move west of 9th. And this is this fear happening with- throughout certain parts of Boulder, particularly Rose Hill, that a lot of these older homes are going to be demolished and replaced by student dorms.

Hamish: Hmm. Eh. Nice cyan.

Osman: High density, no occupancy limit. How many people can we squeeze in? 13 bathrooms means 13 people living in what was A home that probably had two people or maybe th- insane, right? So what does that do to our sewage infrastructure? That's a whole nother topic of question.

Hamish: 13 Bathrooms is insane.

Hamish: Insane. Yeah.

Hamish: Like- It, it, it's that much that it raises the question.

Osman: But really, it's not about sewage, it's about the lived experience for not just, not just… It, it's the lived experience for the neighborhood that bought into something. Now, now I would argue this, that, look, you don't control your neighbors when you buy into a neighborhood, but there is a reasonable assumption that a historic neighborhood without a lot of students will probably look like that in five years, but maybe not. And these new rules that allow for high density within a quarter mile of a transit corridor, this developer is an early mover, and this is what the future likely looks like. The neighborhood's organizing a historic district to try to dial this back and make it harder, but it's not gonna prevent it because there's a lot of homes that aren't gonna qualify as historic.

Hamish: No, really, it's not enough.

Hamish: I would argue this. Yeah. But there

Hamish: Is a reason historically.

Hamish: Mm.

Osman: So how do you prevent this from happening in the future? I don't know. But I do know that this is a ghost of Christmas future, uh, i- for Boulder, and there's a lot of neighbors in this location that are very upset because of the

Osman: Quality of life issues that high density living brings from students, and that's likely who's gonna be living here.

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of, uh, questions, and I don't think we have the information to answer them right now. This is probably one to watch, but I'm thinking of things like height limits, setback limits, like all sorts of things that I just-- I can't, I cannot imagine 13 bedrooms, 13 bathrooms on this parcel even. So- I would- Yeah. I got- It's gonna be Scandinavian as hell.

Osman: I wanna see the building plans. I have not seen them. I'm very curious what it looks like. How are you s- like, how big are these bedrooms? Like, 100 square feet?

Hamish: Like, how do you- Yeah.

Hamish: I know. Yeah. And you got London apartments.

Osman: Like, it's a- A bunch it's a dorm.

Osman: This is a student dorm.

Osman: All right, time for Carve Outs. Carve Outs is our segment.

Hamish: Great. Yeah.

Hamish: Perfect. We're keeping up on time.

Osman: If you're new to our podcast, Carve Outs is our segment where we talk about whatever we wanna talk about, and it just happens to be top of mind, something that we're excited about. And, um, it is stolen from another podcast called Acquired, uh, one of our favorite podcasts, or at least o- one of my favorite podcasts, uh, because they do the same thing. So Hamish, lead us off.

Hamish: Oh, well, you know, I teased it and gave away, gave it away at the start of the podcast. But, um, yeah, over, over the weekend, I went camping up to, uh, a place called Chinns Lake, uh, C-H-I-N-N-S.

Osman: Um, yeah, we're-

Hamish: And, um, the, the term-- It, it's right next to Loch Lomond, which I guess more people that I've talked to seem to recognize. I-- First time hearing about either place. But, uh, my girlfriend had gone there when she was a, a kid and remembered it really fondly, so we thought, "Why not? Let's, let's pack up the SUV and head up there." And, um,

Hamish: I don't know. I'd, I'd romanticized leaf peeping and fall, you know, seeing the aspens and going up there and, um, doing that with, with a significant other, I think since, since I've lived in Colorado.

Osman: You're such a romantic.

Hamish: It's super. Yeah. It, it surprises me more and more how much I am. So it was amazing to go up. But, um, boy is it the season right now. Uh, the, the leaves… We had-- We checked the pictures on the day we drove up and the, the next day as we drove down, and the leaves were changing then. So you're hearing this on Friday, October 2nd. This is your weekend. You know, shoot up to Ned at least and, and look over Indian Peaks and just have a look for some, some changing leaves. But fantastic campsite. Um, fantastic, you know, weekend and, uh, very chilly. So if you are out there camping, you know, pack a appropriately rated sleeping bag. We had a 35-degree bag as the top sheet, and then I, I don't know the rating for the lower one. But we needed a couple of, uh, extra blankets just to stay warm.

Osman: Were you elev- w- were you elevated? Did you have air, air mattress and it was still that cold? Yeah. Huh.

Hamish: Air mattress.

Hamish: Yeah. Um, properly cold too. Like the, the mattress itself wasn't too, um, too cold, but the air, right, right when it tries to sneak in by your neck, um, that was freezing. But no, fantastic. Yeah.

Osman: Huh. Were you-- I got a question for you. Were you wearing,

Osman: Um, like, beanies or s- knit caps?

Osman: No. Okay.

Hamish: We packed them. We just did not wear them.

Osman: You didn't wear 'em? 'Cause that is night and day changing in terms of sleeping bag comfort, is wearing… A- I mean, somebody without hair, I know this, but even with hair, I think it's pretty much you lose so much body heat out of your head, and it's hard to keep, like, especially if you've opened up a sleeping bag and are sharing it as a top cover, if you don't, you don't have that down cap on. So you're-- That's where all your heat's going.

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah.

Hamish: No, you're spot on.

Hamish: Yeah, no.

Hamish: Oh, you're completely right. And in hindsight, I think the next day-- I kind of-- I don't know if I dreamt this while I was sleeping there or if I woke up and experienced it like in the middle of the night, but I think I felt my hair and I felt her hair, and it was like wet to the touch from condensation as well. So we were like, yeah, maybe just cold. Um, but no, a hat would've made all the difference. We both packed hats, and it was only after we'd woken up and gotten warm that we realized that was the move. But we still got great amounts of sleep. You know, we weren't terrible. Um, the biggest one was I think our hips were hurting, um, just from being on that air mattress.

Osman: Probably just cold. Yeah. It-

Hamish: It was a double, and we stuffed ourselves onto it to fit. So we're gonna-- She called it invest, uh, in a larger tent with a queen mattress. I said, "Investing is an interesting use," but…

Osman: Well, I'm gonna give a shout-out in this moment to our client and friend, Andrew Skurka, who has a YouTube channel. I don't know how long it's been out. I just discovered it, and it has Ask Andrew Skurka on it, which I think is, is hilarious and great. We might steal that and have an Ask Osman segment to s- to things. But, uh, he is an expert on backpacking and outdoor adventure, and has all of these tutorials on things to do, and I think this channel's really cool and I would highly recommend it for the next- Is he? Is he? Oh, shout out to you, Andrew. Yeah. The Trek and Andrew Skurka, and we'll put a link on, uh, in the show notes for Andrew on how to do better backpacking and camping.

Hamish: Oh, cool.

Hamish: He's a listener too. Is he? Yeah, so- Oh, Andrew. Yeah, Andrew.

Hamish: And now that you're listening, I, I, I can say this. I was-- You're probably squirming hearing this, Andrew, but you know, we, we went up with an SUV. We were very packed to the gills with all sorts of warmth. We even had an extra sleeping bag if it got so bad.

Osman: Oh.

Hamish: So we, we were okay, but that's my, uh, carve out.

Osman: My very first backpacking trip

Osman: Was in Virginia on spring break, and I'd borrowed a pack from ROTC, external frame metal pack from the, from the Reserve Officer Training Corps, I think is what the ROTC stands for, at my college. I did not own a backpack.

Hamish: Oh. Okay.

Osman: Brought a bunch of things, and, um,

Osman: We

Osman: Did not notice the frozen ground as we were hiking up. It was just a warm, pleasant, 55, 60 degree sunny day, but then as… And we decided we were gonna camp at a pretty relatively high elevation for the location, and that's when I noticed the frozen ground.

Hamish: Oh, whoa.

Osman: We started a little fire, we set up our pack, and, and we had brought one canteen of water and one canteen of alcohol.

Hamish: Noice.

Osman: And

Hamish: Good, good ratio.

Osman: We were so cold, and we ended up dumping the alcohol on the fire just for warmth.

Hamish: Oh, ni- okay, yeah.

Osman: Oh, man. And it was the n- coldest night I've ever been camping in my life.

Hamish: Oh, man. Yeah.

Osman: And ever since then, I've taken it much more seriously, when you realize how much you get from being in a house with a furnace.

Hamish: It's insane. Yeah. I've, uh, you know, camping, car events, stuff like that, I've gone to sleep on a trailer and woken up with frost on my pillow, and then the next night, it was like a two-night thing, I snuck into somebody's tent who had a hot stove, like a wood stove, and I was like, "I'm sorry, I just have to."

Osman: Yeah. Yeah.

Hamish: But yeah.

Osman: All right, my c- my carve-out, um, this is a new discovery for me. It turns out there's a hidden tradition in Colorado along the Front Range, and that is of getting your Hatch hot peppers, your Hatch chilies, in Denver. So on Federal, uh, around the 50th Street, maybe 52nd Street, there is a farmer who brings semi-trailer loads of Hatch peppers and Hatch chilies and will roast them for you, and you can take a bag of freshly roasted hot chilies home, a bushel. He sells them by the bushel. And, uh, you, he put them in a cooler. You can keep them hot all the way to your house in Boulder, and then you, you process them. You remove the char, and you clean them out of seeds, and you can package them. And so it's been a tradition here among some of our friends, and this year they invited us to join them.

Hamish: Oh, yeah.

Osman: And you package them and freeze them. So we, we ended up… We have two bushels of…

Hamish: How big is the bushel?

Osman: It's b- I mean, I- we have a lot of Hatch chilies. Yeah. We're gonna be eating them for the whole year.

Osman: And, uh, it was a lot of fun, and I really enjoyed the experience processing these with our friends.

Osman: Pro tip, wear latex or, um… What's the other? Wear gloves, right? Mm-hmm. Wear kitchen gloves. Wear latex gloves. There's another material that's escaping me right now for those that have la- Nitrile. Nitrile. Wear nitrile gloves.

Hamish: Hmm, yeah.

Hamish: Nitrile? Nitrile. Yeah.

Osman: W- I didn't realize as we were processing these that the hot chili oil was soaking into my skin, because the water that you process the peppers with is cool and wet, and so it's fine.

Osman: And then two hours later we're done, and we're just hanging out and, and, and I notice my hands are starting to get a little warm, but no big deal.

Hamish: Yeah, I've never felt that.

Osman: It's fine.

Osman: And then I went and used the bathroom, and then I washed my hands after using the bathroom.

Osman: And let's just say l- Was it No, it was like, it was like my hands had dried. This was like half an hour after being done, and I was not expecting what happened next.

Hamish: And I mean, to be fair, this is a couple hours after too, right? Like it's-

Hamish: No, it's like- Yeah.

Osman: And let me just say that I should've washed my hands before using the bathroom and after using the bathroom, and dip them in milk or butter fat or something,

Hamish: Had your own pair of gloves just for it.

Osman: Because it was about an hour later, we're driving to Fort Collins to go to Taste of Fort Collins, which I do not recommend for the record. Yeah. We'll come back to that at some point.

Hamish: Yeah, unfort- I gotta get the full story. Yeah.

Osman: Um, when my hands started to really burn, and so did other body parts, and Leah's hands also started to burn. And we were both like, "Oh my God, we've washed them two or three times at this point, and they're burning."

Hamish: Also started.

Hamish: We were both like, "Oh."

Hamish: What else can we do? Yeah. Eric?

Osman: Mm. They're pretty darn hot.

Hamish: He has-

Osman: Leah's literally putting her hands in the air conditioning vent. She's like, "My hands are so hot. Turn up the air conditioning." And she does not like high AC. Mm. Like this is a constant thing is like she puts it on low, I put it on medium. It's our little game with the AC.

Hamish: Yeah. Like, all the

Osman: Yeah. And she's got her hands right up against the vents, and we are cooking the all the way to Fort Collins.

Hamish: Way. And it's, it's a heat, like the sensation?

Osman: It's, it's feeling like, it's feeling like your hands are on a hot heated blanket.

Hamish: Feeling like- Oh, that's insane.

Osman: Yeah. And, and it's feeling in depth too. It's feeling like, like… So this went on for 24 hours.

Hamish: Like it cuts… Yeah.

Osman: It felt like the h- like a heated steering wheel.

Osman: And, and eventually we reached peak, right? We hit peak experience. We're now past it, okay? That… But by the time we got to Fort Collins it had peaked and started going down, but it was at least 24 hours, and might've been 36 before it finally stopped.

Osman: And I was just s- astounded at the level of heat in my hands.

Hamish: Hmm. 'Cause it wasn't initially, right? It slow built on-

Osman: Mm. Didn't feel anything until it hit, and when it hit, it was something. So, um, the Hatch guy down on Federal and 52nd Street will package the hot ones and the medium ones. Um, we, we did get some of their salsa that was labeled medium, but even Leah agrees, and she loves spicy, that that's hot.

Hamish: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Osman: So don't, don't bemoan the medium label on the hot chilies that are down there. They're pretty hot. And this is how to get them really fresh and engage in a really fun Colorado tradition.

Osman: But take it from me, wear gloves.

Hamish: Wear gloves. They, um… And so Hatch Chiles are from New Mexico, you said? Yeah.

Osman: Hatch, New Mexico. I don't know if this is sort of like, you know, champagne has to come from the Champagne region of France, otherwise it's sparkling water, but that's where Hatch- that's where actually these Hatch chiles are from, and hopefully they didn't suffer too much water damage from the floods of the hurricane that just went through, uh, Polo, Hurricane Polo, I think is the name of it.

Hamish: Oh, yeah, something like that.

Hamish: It was a hurri- I, I thought it was like a tropical storm. Anyway, yeah.

Osman: Well, by the time it came up into New Mexico, it's a tropical storm, but it originated as, as a hurricane in the Gulf and then blew north, and I think Hatch, New Mexico actually suffered quite a bit of damage, so hopefully these farmers are okay.

Hamish: Right. Oh, okay.

Hamish: At least they got their harvest.

Osman: Um, but, but quite the character, and I- hopefully they're fully harvested because they're rolling with semis, like, every two or three days.

Hamish: Oh, shoot. Yeah.

Osman: This is a really popular thing and really fun. A unique Colorado tradition is to enjoy the tastes and the fruits of Hatch, New Mexicos and Hatch chiles.

Hamish: What do you, what do you do with these chilies?

Osman: Okay.

Hamish: I'm sorry.

Osman: We're gonna make all sorts of dishes. So we're gonna put- make, like, Hatch chile burgers. I like to make, like, a chile, like a, like a beef Texas chile with… That has, uh, serranos and other types of peppers in it. So it's… You, you use them in various dishes, like chicken dishes. Like, you use them to flavor your food throughout the year. Yeah, that's why we froze them.

Hamish: Anything.

Hamish: And they're huge. I mean, it- Osman's got a reel on his Instagram. Was that Ned?

Osman: You can, you can make ch- chile rellenos. Yeah. So you can open them up, and then you can buttermilk, uh, the… And, and put some panko on the outside of the chile, stuff them with, with cheese. Like, these are all, you know, Mexican dishes.

Hamish: There's so much. Yeah.

Hamish: Wait, yummy.

Osman: Readers, if you know of things we can do with Hatch chiles, I got a lot of them, so suggestions are welcome.

Hamish: Suggestions welcome, yeah.

Hamish: Well, with that…

Osman: With that, we are at the end of the House Einstein podcast. Dear listeners and viewers, you have so generously chosen to share your time with us, and we deeply appreciate it. If you liked what you heard and would like to visit our sponsor, you'll find us at HouseEinstein.com. You can also check out our social media. We're on YouTube, we're on Instagram, we're on Facebook, X, BlueSky, LinkedIn, and TikTok.

Hamish: You name it.

Osman: Are you still publishing on TikTok? Yeah. I don't check it, so I'm assuming you're on it.

Hamish: Yes, sir. No, yeah.

Hamish: Occasionally it does great, and then it doesn't. And then it does great. It's TikTok, yeah

Osman: I… Who knows why. But we would deeply appreciate your feedback and your comments. Your, your time is incredibly valuable, and we appreciate you spending it with us today, and I guess we'll catch you next time