Haunted Houses, Hidden Listings & Real Estate Stigma

House Einstein Podcast #136 Transcript

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Hamish: In 1989, a man named Jeffrey Stambovsky agreed to purchase a Victorian home in Nyack, New York for 650K. There was just one problem: the house was haunted, or at least, that's what the seller had been telling people for years. She claimed to have encountered several ghosts in the home, even sharing her experiences with Reader's Digest. When Stambovsky discovered the property's reputation, he tried to back out of the deal and recover his deposit. The seller refused, and the case eventually reached a New York appeals court. In one of the strangest rulings in American real estate law, the court declared that, for legal purposes, the house was haunted. The judges weren't confirming the existence of ghosts, but because the seller had publicly promoted the haunting, she couldn't deny it when selling the property. The court allowed the buyer's lawsuit to cancel the contract, and the case became known as the Ghostbusters ruling. It raises an interesting question: when selling a home, just how much of its history are you obligated to disclose? And that's New York, this is Colorado, and welcome to House Einstein Podcast 136.

Osman: Hello, hello. Welcome to the podcast.

Hamish: It's good to have you here. Uh, I'm Hamish, the co-host for the House Einstein Podcast. Uh, typically it's Osman doing the intros, so he's a bit smoother with it, but, uh, we've got a great docket for you today, and we are recording the day before this podcast goes live. So, uh, we might have some more up-to-the-minute news, but, um, yeah, we've got a great docket today. Do you wanna hit disclosures first or go for the- Yeah... the docket

Osman: oz? Let's go through, uh, disclosures first. So for purposes of this podcast, it's entertainment. Uh, that's what you're listening to, so please don't make any major life decisions, real estate decisions, financial decisions of any kind on the basis of what you hear in the podcast. If you are interested in our professional advice as your real estate advisors, you can find us at houseeinstein.com. And the podcast is sponsored by the House Einstein Brokerage. That's the website for the brokerage. You'll see the service areas we cover, as well as a whole bunch of other content that you may or may not find interesting. Uh, we always welcome your feedback, and thank you so much for being here with us today. Uh, today's docket. Okay. Um, we're gonna cover event horizon. That's our view of upcoming events happening in the Boulder region, sometimes down into Denver, sometimes into the mountain foothills, and that is for events occurring from now through November 10th. And then we have our closing table topic. This week we are talking about the days on market stigma, and how that impacts both buyers and sellers. Tales from the crypt, we're gonna be talking about haunted houses. Haunted houses for real here in Boulder, as well as haunted houses maybe in the movies, and

Osman: we might tell you a little bit about Colorado disclosure laws. And then we've got our usual market update segment based on the last 30 days of sales and current inventory, tell you what's happening here in the city of Boulder. And then we're gonna move on to sales of the week. This week we're gonna talk about 2750 Vassar Drive in Table Mesa, 3130 Kittrell Court, Rolling Hills, uh, which is also really Table Mesa. Most people don't think of Rolling Hills as a separate neighborhood, but- Yeah... okay. 3880- For some reason... Chippewa Drive in Frasier Meadows, 2803 Cordry Court in a very unique little pocket neighborhood that most people don't know much about, and then we're gonna be talking about a recent sale at The Peloton, 3701 Arapahoe, uh, Arapahoe Ave., Unit 402, which, uh, just closed for 1.1 million. We're gonna give you the details of what that has been like for the owner, who actually was the first owner and acquired it way back in 2008. Um, and then we've got a little bit of shameless self-promotion. That's when we tell you about one of our buyers or sellers and what they're hunting for. And then we're gonna talk about hot takes. Well, we're gonna talk about the news. We're gonna give you our hot takes- Mm-hmm... on the news.

Osman: This week Boulder, uh, named its 12 highest risk wildfire, w- 12 highest wildfire risk neighborhoods, or neighborhoods that are at risk to wildfire. And, uh, the, the big brokerages have fired back at Compass with a new entity called Open Real Estate that's intended to compete with their exclusive network. Yeah. And, uh, the Florida AG, attorney general, just announced a lawsuit over First Street's climate risk scores. We were talking about climate risk scores when they first came out, and surprise, surprise, there's a lawsuit in play. Uh, Nederland is still trying to buy Eldora, and there's some residents that are pushing the trustees pretty hard to walk away. We're gonna talk about that. And that more or less wraps up our docket before we hit our carve-outs, our usual segment where we talk about anything we wanna talk about. Hamish is talking about buying a zoo, and I'm gonna be talking about my recent adventure in Sedona, Arizona. And that's our docket for Podcast 136.

Hamish: Yeah. Up to the minute on the carve-out for me. Um, so, you know, stay tuned for that, but, uh, after putting it down, all this, I realized I was going to write about, um, or talk about using a Mac. I used a Mac for the first time last night, and, uh, that was new, so maybe that's a later topic.

Osman: Personally I'd rather hear about you buying a zoo, but, uh-... it is always interesting to, uh, having stumbled from a PC to a Mac myself not that long ago, it, it's always interesting to hear about that experience for other people. But now that I've been- Holy cow ... on MacBooks for like the last seven years or six years, I'm, I can't imagine switching back to a PC. They're just so much better. But that's a different topic for a different day. Hmm.

Hamish: Well, this, uh, you know, I didn't notice it until we were talking about the docket, but there's quite a few, I think, stigma related items here. So that might be our theme, but before we jump into that, it's, uh, our little event horizon from, uh, October 30th to November 10th. What's going on? We're gonna run through this a

Osman: little quickly because we talked about a bunch of these last week, but they're happening this weekend. And if you happen to catch the podcast when it first airs on Friday, you might still have an opportunity to attend these events. The Pearl Street Stampede is Friday, October 30th at 7:00 PM, and that's a downtown tradition where Steve Thibeault leads a parade through downtown, and, uh, the, the marching band's behind him, and later in the evening there's the game. Uh, I think the stampede is earlier. The game's at 7:00 PM. And then the Carousel of Spookiness is happening on Saturday, Halloween, 10:00 AM to 8:00 PM. That's normally the Carousel of Happiness out in Nederland. Uh, if you show up in costume, a ride's only two bucks, but if you, if you fail to show up-... in costume, the ride is three. And, uh, the carousel animals will be dressed up. The Wurlitzer will be playing spooky tunes. And there's a contest for all ages, plus candy... Costume contest for all ages, plus candy and crafts. And, you know, that's tot- these are family-friendly events. And then there's a Halloween dance party also Saturday, 11 to noon, so this is happening, uh, you know, much tighter timeline, and that's at the Canyon Theatre at the Main Street Library, 1000

Osman: Canyon Boulevard. It's free. The kids can come in costume, uh, then go march in the, the munchkin parade afterward on Pearl Street. Uh, there's also a Halloween dance there that's happening as part of the family tradition. So all sorts of fun and games for families this weekend here in Boulder. Sunday, you can take the kids to go watch Coco, which has to be the most adorable Halloween movie ever, 2:00 to 4:00 PM, also at the Canyon Theatre, also free.

Hamish: Um- Good movie... boy, there's still,

Osman: there's still more things happening. Uh, this one, we're gonna skip around. So this is not, no longer family friendly. There's Movie Scare-A-Thon double feature happening at The Dairy. So this is Friday- Mm-hmm... uh, 7:00 to 10:00 PM, the double feature. Tickets are seven or 14 bucks. You can watch Bride of Frankenstein and then watch Carrie back to back. Free popcorn, and of course, costumes are encouraged. Uh, and then over at Junkyard Social on Sunday night, 3:00 PM to 11:00 PM, a Dias de, de los Muertos celebration. Junkyard Social is 2525 Frontier Avenue. It's sort of, I always talk about it as kind of a burner adjacent place. They, they throw great parties. Mm. It's only 15 bucks for adults, uh, five bucks for kids of all ages. And, uh, you've got live salsa, foro, and samba bands, plus salsaton DJ. A salsaton DJ. I don't know what that is. I'm not cool enough- No... to know what that is. But cultural foods and... Do you know what that is, Hamish?

Hamish: I would imagine, I don't know, but I'm thinking like reggaeton,

Osman: salsaton. Right. Yeah. What is that? Okay. All right, so it's some-... some variation- Reggae salsa... of salsa? Yeah. Okay. There's gonna be kids crafts there too. And then let's hit the live music stuff that's happening. Boulder Phil, so this is, we're gonna push out a little bit further, so for those of you that are listening to this podcast a little further in time, Wednesday, November 4th, you can catch the Boulder Philharmonic at Planet Bluegrass. The theme is Country Music Explored. That's the Wildflower Pavilion in Lyons. Student tickets are only 10 bucks. I'm not sure how much adult tickets are. Um, so that sounds like a lot of fun. And then Rodrigo y Gabriela is a really cool band. Yeah. I, I've enjoyed their music for a long time. Friday, November 6th, Boulder Theater, and, uh, they're, they are a Grammy-winning Mexican guitar duo. And, um, yeah, that should be a lot of fun. I think it may already be sold out or close to selling out by the time you hear this. Uh, if you miss it, you can get maybe resale tickets at about 100 bucks, but you may, sometimes you can get tickets at the door, so I really... Not, like, at the box office, but people will sell their tickets at the door at Boulder events. So if you happen to not be able to get tickets, I would encourage you to try

Osman: to just show up at the door and see what happens. Mm-hmm. Worst case scenario, you can go out on the town, uh, downtown in Boulder. And then, um, on Saturday, November 7th, I think I mentioned the date for Rodrigo y Gabriela. That's November 6th at 8:00 PM, Boulder Theater. On November 7th, that's Saturday next week, uh, at the Gold Hill Inn, there's a big band bash. It's only a $20 cover, and there's a nine-piece swing

Hamish: orchestra in a really small place. Like, that space is really- Really

Osman: small space... uh, intimate. Really intimate and really lovely. Um, and if you're gonna, what time do you think people should show up, Hamish, if they're trying to get in the door-

Hamish: ... now that you're an expert? I, I start 24 hours before, but no-... truly, probably like 5:00 PM, start heading up there.

Osman: I would say actually get up there at 4:45. Okay. Yeah. You wanna arrive at 4:45, and that way you'll get space in the bar, have bar food, and you'll be inside by the time the band... You'll see the band starting to warm up and practice, but so what? Um, that's a long time to be hanging out, of course. You're there for three hours before the band kicks off, but, you know. They've got libations. You'll be okay. Bring your friends. They've got libations. Yeah. Yeah. Expect to hang out and you'll have a great time. I love the Gold Hill Inn. Honestly, it's one of the most authentic and intimate experiences- Mm-hmm... that I've had here in Boulder County, and I've been living here a long time. I, it's just become such a favorite. Yeah. Fantastic. NoBo's First Friday Art Walk is happening. So, uh, right next to our office, every first Friday of the month, there's an art walk, and it is a lot of fun. The galleries are open. The city, uh, kicks in some food and beverages, including adult bever- beverages, I will add. There's live music and food trucks up and down North Broadway. And, uh, the theme I guess is small or- uh, oh, no, Crowd Collective is kicking off its annual Small Original Show that night, and that's, that's an event center up there. So go check it out.

Osman: Mm-hmm. First Friday, November 6th, 6:00 to 9:00 PM. Of course, it's City of Boulder, so the lights are off by 10, right? The party's over probably at 9:00, and everyone's home in bed by 10:00 Um, unless you're a student. And then, um- Final reminders for our events horizon. Election day is Tuesday, November 3rd. Uh, ballots at this point have to go in a dropbox, not th- not mail, so you have to go drop them off physically. And don't forget to set your clocks back, uh, Sunday, November 1st.

Hamish: It's happening. Yeah. S- leap, leap back in the fall. I am, uh, yet to drop off my ballot, but I, I always drop it off, so.

Osman: So H- Hamish, any thoughts about that Event Horizon segment? Anything you think you w- anything you're going to?

Hamish: I was gonna mention, uh, I went to the City of Boulder, uh, drive-in theater, and that was a lot of fun. Um, they had two screens going. Certainly, they had technical issues. Um, and they also provided alcohol. It was, uh, $11 buy one get one margaritas, so- Oh... really good price. And, um, yeah, cool little family event.

Osman: Very neat. And what did you think of

Hamish: Poltergeist? Uh, pretty good. That was the second time I'd seen it. If you remember, uh, you recommended it, like, last year, I think. Um, so it was fun re-watching it. I watched it with Taylor. It was her first time seeing it. And, you know, the ghost comes through the TV, and she just starts giggling, 'cause the the g- the special effects just aren't, you know, up to snuff. Right. But there were a couple times where I was, you know, my heart rate ri- rose, and, um, movie did their magic. So- You know, I got into it.

Osman: But Taylor st- didn't scream. She just giggled?

Hamish: Um- No screams. No, unfortunately. And I didn't have, um... I've got a $300 Pathfinder, listeners, uh, but it does not have a, uh, radio. So fortunately, I was able to open the hatch, and then I used a strap to keep it so it wasn't blocking anybody's view. And the, um, projector screen itself seemed to have speakers, so.

Osman: So for the record, this is not Hamish's daily driver. Nope. This is one of his many project vehicles, and he's particularly proud of the acquisition price, which is why he mentions it- Particularly. Yeah.... as, in, in his fleet rundown every time- Mm-hmm... just 'cause, uh, the tires on it alone are worth, like, five times that value. But, uh- Sh- Yeah, cool little off-road rig.

Hamish: Worth it, um, for stuff like this. That's where it's paid itself off the most. And, um, yeah, it was, uh, new cars are so funny. There's everybody there, um, windows rolled up, car off, you know, with the fan on 'cause they're listening through their radio. But the slightest weight shift, and there were people just setting off their car alarms, like- Oh my God... throughout the whole movie. Oh, no And we just giggled every time, 'cause, like, Taylor's like, "Does this even have an alarm?" I'm like, "No. Like, I unplugged the battery so it wouldn't die before the movie was

Osman: over." And- That's great

Hamish: ... yeah. So anyhow, um, yeah, lots of fun events. Rodrigo y Gabriela, I think I know them. I think they're in one of my liked music playlists, but I'm not sure. You would've...

Osman: I think you, if you, if you go to, if you go look for their music, you absolutely- Yeah... have heard of them.

Hamish: They're, they're fantastic. Yeah. Well, good stuff. You got any w- are you gonna try and make any?

Osman: You know, good question. I originally wasn't planning to be here this weekend, and then, um, my plans changed. I was actually gonna be down at the Javelina 100 in, uh, in, near Phoenix volunteering, but unfortunately my, my plans changed. So now I'm up here, and I think, uh, I think Leah and I are gonna head to her family's house. And there's- Mm... littles, right? So they've got, there's three, uh, n- there's three nephews and nieces that live here in Fort Collins, and they're so adorable. So I'm sure we'll, we'll go trick-or-treating with them, which- Perfect... I have no idea what we'll be wearing. It's mostly about the kids, right? Trick-or-treating, and the adults having adult beverages, and walking along, and, and laughing, and giggling. Um, so yeah, that's our plan. Yeah, the normalcy. Yeah. I have a, I have a pretty spooky mask. I might

Hamish: wear it. Oh. That's, that's the way- Yeah... to do it. I'll be handing out- Yeah... candy, right? And, um, I'm just gonna pick up a spooky mask just to, just for the kids, so.

Osman: I'll show you, after this podcast is over, I'll show you the, the spooky mask. Maybe it'll be a thumbnail photo. Let me see. We'll see what you think. It's pretty good- We'll see what you think... for thumbnail.

Hamish: Yeah. Okay. Um,

Osman: yeah, so that's this coming weekend. All right, let's get into it, Hamish. Let's talk about the closing table topic.

Hamish: This podcast is sponsored by Hauseitstein. We serve buyers and sellers in Colorado, focusing on Boulder, Denver, and several mountain resort towns, including Breckenridge and Winter Park. Our mission is simple: help you make a smarter real estate decision. You can learn more at hauseitstein.com or our YouTube channel, where you'll find videos on neighborhoods, specific listings, and much,

Osman: much more. The days- Yeah, this one-... on market stigma.

Hamish: Yeah, if you remember from our quick docket rundown, uh, we were discussing this, uh, I don't know if coalition is the correct term, but, um, agent who represents eXp and Next Home, uh, Home Services of America, Keller Williams, and the local or real RE/MAX group have launched a platform, uh, to kind of nationalize the listing service. Uh, they, you know, and we'll get into it in the hot takes, but it comes as almost a response to, uh, Compass' exclusive listings network. And, you know, we kind of, when we were putting together the show notes, discussed this a little bit. And Compass' one of their largest value propositions for their exclusive network is you can list your home privately and get feedback and information without it affecting your days on market number, or tally, or stat, when it does hit the MLS or when you do finally publicly list it, if it doesn't sell on the exclusive market. And it gets me thinking, you know, like, uh, I'm thinking goods and services, just very basics. You go to Walmart, and there's an Xbox there, and it hasn't sold for a month. It keeps its price. But there's a stigma in real estate that if it's been on the market for so long, certain amount of days on market, then it is subject to or expected to have a discount.

Hamish: And I- You know, I kind of put a couple of bullets in here, um, to discuss around, and I, I kind of wanted to address that because if you think about it, the house isn't getting any worse while it's being listed for however long it has been, and it's kind of this, uh, stigma or this, um, convention that has now almost baked in, right? Similar to everybody lists, um, when there's more buyers in the market. I mean, that one kind of makes sense. But I remember, Osman, in, in previous conversations we've had, we talked about bu- uh, Boulder specifically, and given that it's majority more affluent and you have, um, homeowners that typically have more secure jobs, whether it be in the government labs there or in the, uh, CU, you know, college industry, uh, these sellers usually have high equity positions, and they don't necessarily need to sell. However, we still see days on market impacting the discount to list price received when these hos- houses eventually do sell. So I'm wondering, and I want you to talk about the days on market stigma, and is it worth Compass creating an entirely private network to try and circumvent? And then on the flip side, is it worth Open Real Estate almost trying to do the opposite? I mean, I think you know where I

Osman: stand on this. It's, it's a data transparency issue. Mm-hmm. And historically, accurate days on market is useful to s- to buyers because it, it guides what they think the home is really worth. And if they don't know how long the home has been on the market, or they're misled to believe it's only been on the market a few weeks, which sometimes happens, buyer... Sellers will refresh a listing and the agent doesn't know enough to look up the actual days on market, or the buyer's flown in and didn't realize this home was marketed the previous year. They've flown in for the weekend to go look at homes, and they have no idea that this house... Just like the, the story that we just heard, right? In the beginning of this podcast, this, the buyer didn't know that the home had been marketed as a haunted house to Reader's Digest. Literally- Right... Reader's Digest paid the seller for the story about the haunted house. So that, that is something you would think buyers would want to know, and I think transparency benefits the market. I think that it, it's fair, it's honest, and when... Uh, and, and this, this idea that there's this private network that will allow sellers to test the marketing of their home, maybe they'll get more money from an unsuspecting buyer, uh,

Osman: that do- and they don't need... That buyer will feel this sense of exclusivity, right? Right. So this is what ... It's actually quite brilliant for Compass to have invented this, although I don't think they're the first to have a pocket listing. They basically turn pocket listings into a marketing tool. And- Right... the, the reality is actually quite something different. So if you, if you were to pull up the Compass app, and let me, let me back up for a second so we don't- Sure... get a lawsuit filed by Compass. Um, these are our opinions as market participants, as people that represent buyers and sellers, on a business practice that is widespread by a nationwide brokerage that has, like, 30% of listings in the country, right? Because they also own Coldwell Banker now. Um, I think it's over 30%. If you look at, you pull up the Compass app, you can see how many actual private exclusives there are, and there's usually only one or two or three anytime I've looked. Mm. It's possible there's more right now. It's, it's unclear, but the, the pitch to the seller is, yeah, you get to hide your days on market and test marketing the listing, and you also get to create this maybe sense of exclusivity for a listing, which might lead a buyer to do what? To pay more

Osman: than they probably should in a true market, right? And it, it's- Right... it, in some ways it, it's sort of like the energy or excitement people feel in an auction, and then sometimes later the regret on eBay that they overpaid for something, or, or bring a trailer, or cars and bids. Like, the excitement of an auction can drive up the price. The sense of exclusivity can drive up the price. You're getting a secret listing. No one else knew about it. Um, but in practice, the lack of transparency can also cost the seller, cost the buyer a lot of money. Mm-hmm. Um, and I'll... And it's not really that hidden because anybody can download the Compass app, and frankly, even if you don't have the Compass app, you, you flew into town and you looked at this amazing new listing that appears to have just been marketed to you exclusively through the network, once you're under contract, you should actually do your due diligence and find out when was this home originally listed. Mm-hmm. Um, what was the original list price? You should look at those old listing photos. We could pull up everything that's on the MLS and show that to you, and then we could specifically ask the seller for documentation. And if they're evasive in any way, shape, or form, you should just terminate. There's

Osman: so many exits in the contract. You can call that part of your due diligence document request and exit that the due diligence documents were not satisfactory. Because you really need to know w- how long the home was on market and at what price during what market conditions in the past to have a sense of its market value to you today. Mm-hmm. And even if the sale was 10 years ago, like one of the things we do with buyers is look at the track record of how long it took to sell on each market time period, and if you see a persistent track record of long days on market, that tells you something about the desirability of this house. And, and maybe it's still the perfect house for you, but you at least have that data point before you go guns blazing writing offers. Without that knowledge, you could easily end up overpaying. So I, I think it makes a lot of sense to have fair and honest days on market for listings, and I also think that the private exclusive bit is overplayed. And anybody can verify it for themselves just by pulling up the Compass app in your local market and ask yourself, how many of these private exclusives are there? And are they really private, and are they really exclusive if I can download the app and see them all there?

Osman: Like, how is that actually- Yeah. S- and so we, and we will do that if we have buyers coming into town and we know we're, we're scheduling showings. We'll go look, but so far it's super rare that we're like, "Oh, wait. There's a private exclusive. Let's call the agent and get that scheduled." Um- Mm-hmm So it's really, it's, it's an interesting, uh, it's an interesting division that's happening with this, with this new entity, and we'll talk more about it in the hot takes segment, as sort of a competing or counterbalancing factor as the market starts to fragment away from regional MLSs having all the power. Um, and, and now it's going to private industry having the power, right? Do we really want- Mm-hmm. Do we want a consortium of, of, uh- Of big brokerages... brokerages- Yeah... that are members of a common MLS, right? Which I would say is as close as you can get to open. Or do you want a handful of brokerages controlling what becomes the MLS? And, and- Mm... oh, and I guess we're doing the hot take. Openrei is more, more akin to the actual MLS than this private exclusive network, um,

Hamish: gambit. Yeah. So I'm, and I may butcher this a little bit here, but, um, you might be listening and thinking, you know, "Is there any regulation to this?" And from my understanding, you cannot publicly advertise a listing until it's on the MLS, or, uh, you have, like, 48 hours to publicly advertise it. And so Compass' skirt around it is this captive app, right? Like, you have to download the app and sign up to use it to see these private listings before they're on the MLS. Similar to our webs- our newsletter, uh, where we discuss fresh listings and give you our hot takes on that, the valuation, and, uh, possibly the strengths or weaknesses of certain properties. We can't discuss that unless you sign up on our website at housesignsign.com.

Osman: Well, that... Okay, but that's a little different than... Like, Com-... So if you sign up for Compass, they know that you've viewed this house seven, 10 times. They know you've saved it as your favorite. Like, you're- Mm-hmm... giving away your interest levels to who? The listing agent. Right. Right? 'Cause that's who gets the lead if you click, "Show me this property." Talk-

Hamish: talking more on just, like, the advertisement of the listing, right? True. Like they can... Yeah. I, I agree with you. They have to, if,

Osman: if they're members of the MLS- Mm... they need to put it on the MLS within, I think it's 48 hours. Yeah. I think it's actually 24 hours. Every, every MLS has different rules from when you begin to publicly market the property. And I think the CEO of, of Compass has said he'll pay your fines up to whatever dollar amount-... if you actually get fined. Um- If... so this is turning into quite the battleground over days on market stigma. And is the stigma real? Absolutely it's real. Because if you feel like it's exclusive and, and it's rare, scarcity does what? Pr- increases the perception of demand, which in theory increases the price or increases your desire b- for the property. Um, it's sometimes why agents will w- the savvy, crafty, dishonest ones will pretend there's suddenly interest. When you're scheduling your second or third showing, you'll get this phone call or text message, "Just by the way, there's another showing that's the second showing this weekend. I'm not saying they're writing an offer, I just wanna let you know that there's other people that are com- that might be interested this weekend, so you may wanna, you may wanna tell your buyer that." And when you tell the buyer that, they're like, "Okay, I guess we better get in faster."

Osman: Although some of them are like, "What are they doing? Why are they telling us that?" The really, the clever ones know that, that they might be getting gamed. And- Mm ... uh, but it's so hit or miss. Sometimes they're not being gamed. Like this one unit recently at The Arete here in Boulder, the listing agent called us and, called me and said, "You know, I, I think we're getting an offer." And I said, "Okay, I'll convey the message." And our buyers are like, "Are they really getting an offer? It's been 200-" Yeah... "plus days on market. Why are they getting an offer suddenly now when I'm looking at it?" And I, I agree. I'm like, I, I, they you 100% could be getting gamed. I don't know. She's a really smart agent. Um, I don't think she plays that way, but she might. Mm-hmm. There's no way to know for sure. And by the time we actually got our second showing in, or actually third showing in, it was under contract. It w- it turned out the agent wasn't gaming us. She really did get- Yeah ... an offer in. So it's really hard to predict how that, that works. And so you, you, this, these are the conversations you need to have with your buyer, if you're a realtor in the industry, uh, about how to react to information. And it's very difficult to turn off human nature.

Osman: So the perception of exclusivity increases demand, increases pricing. The perception that it's stale and no one's interested in it, it's been on the- Mm-hmm... market a long time. It's the Nordstrom's rack. It's been picked through by everyone- Yeah... and their mother. So you're interested, yeah. No one's interested, and now the, the seller wants you to pay full price. I don't think so. Like, you f- you have to, you even fi- find yourself wanting it less because it's been on market so long. Mm-hmm. And I'll tell you the story. I had a client and he's, he's a six-time past client. The first home we helped them buy was in Frasier Meadows, and they still live there today. And this is now 15 years later, they're still trying to figure out what was wrong with it, because there's nothing wrong with it, right? They, they got an incredible deal. We negotiated a great price. It's a great house. It may have just been overpriced. It may have been tenant occupied. It may not have been really ready for showings in terms of its sh- was it show condition or not? So sometimes sell- more, more commonly, there's nothing wrong with the house when it's a stale listing. Mm. It's more likely that it just wasn't ready to sell or it was overpriced. And now the price is right, and

Osman: they've done the preparation to make it marketable. Um, sometimes it's something else, like maybe it's in a busy location. Um, there was a listing in Gunbarrel not that long ago that had been on the market a really long time and the m- the market was much hotter, and you couldn't tell what was wrong with it till you showed up. And then you realize there's a neighbor who is giving the appearance of mental instability with their signage and

Hamish: their- Mm... fortress-like, you know, fortifications- I

Osman: remember this... around the house. Yeah. And so what was wrong with it wasn't the house, it was the neighbor, what was wrong- Mm... with it. So, so you sometimes you can't tell without a showing, but 100% time on market has an impact. So it isn't ... It is a stigma, and it's interesting to see Compass and other brokerages try to maneuver around who, whose interest are they serving? And honestly, I think there should be federal l- legislation on this. Like, if you're gonna market it to the public under fair housing law, it should start a ticking clock. Mm-hmm. 100%. And, and Compass's position has been, "No, no, no, no, we wanna favor our sellers versus buyers." And I, I think honesty around days on market is transparency, and, and that increases- Yeah... trust, and, and results in a more efficient

Hamish: market. Completely. Um, k- kind of like free market theory. It's not a free market if you have hidden listings and no transparency and all these other things. And if it's really the market that's going to decide the value of these houses, uh, y- you need the days on market stats to be able to make that decision. Um- Well, and if you're, if you're

Osman: really paying market value, it has to be on the market. Right. Because 100%, if it's not on the market, somebody is overpaying or underpaying. Yeah. Right? Because the market hasn't seen it. And typically, if it's somebody... If it is it overpaid or underpaid, it's more than likely overpaid, uh, for the same asset, and you have no idea whether you're really paying market value. I mean, you, you need a l- you need a lot of confidence to know that you're getting a really good deal pre-market. And that- Mm-hmm. Um, and, and some of our clients have it. We certainly do our best to educate our clients, but it's not our preferred approach because w- and we warn them this, right? Like, if we pull a pocket listing for you, we find out about a pocket listing, there's a good chance you're gonna overpay for the privilege. Yeah. But at least you didn't have competition. So it's up to you if you wanna pursue it, but we will disclose to you that there's a real... And we'll go through the comps, um, and we will advise you to the best of our ability, but more than likely the seller is being greedy and trying to get money for the, the exclusivity.

Hamish: Yeah. And, and same- think, you know, like I think, uh, exclusivity sells kind of luxury, right? Um, you, we're reading that book, uh, oh, I f- can't remember what it was called, but it was about luxury marketing. Yeah. And exclusivity is like a big, uh, you know, a leg of the s- the three-legged stool basically for that. So yeah, it seems like Open Real Estate's answer to Compass is the opposite, right? Like, let's just have everything as open as possible. However, uh, there's four of us that are gonna control it, you know? Right.

Osman: Yeah. Well, four big players, but they're also- Mm-hmm... inviting, you know, it's like Trump's board of- Everyone, right? Trump's board of- Yeah... we could join. We could sign the letter. But it's like Trump's board of peace, where Trump is the chairman of the board and Kushner's is like a board member, and like, then there's a cast of, of countries with questionable, uh, questionable- That... peace initiatives in the background, right? Are they- Yeah. Right? You've got countries that are, I don't know how peaceful they are, um, that are on the board of peace. Makes you really wonder, is, you know, Open Real Estate is its own little board of peace going on. Yeah. But, but in principle, they say they're gonna work alongside the MLS, not try to supplant it. Mm-hmm. I don't know if I believe them. Right. They are private businesses with their own private interests, but why not just invest in the MLS and bolster the MLS then?

Hamish: It sh- at the minimum, this should be lighting an absolute fire underneath MLSs to do more, I think to be... I, I almost like not argue for regulation, but enforcement of the current, right? How often do we talk about data entry for closed sales and everything lagging because agents are slow to put it in or have clerical errors and things like that. Like, if, if the MLS, I think, were, um, more on the ball, so to speak, then we might have, there might be less appeal to create a system like this, you know?

Osman: I think, I think the Real Estate Commission, uh, needs to pass a rule that says whether it's on the MLS or not, you have to disclose true, true days on market, um- Mm-hmm... from the day the-

Hamish: As a minimum, yeah... the, the listing was publicly

Osman: marketed, which includes private exclusive network. It's not, I know it's, the word private's there, but it's not private. Right. If it's being marketed, uh, to people out, if you hired an agent, the day that agent actually says to anybody else, "This home is available," that's the day that begins your days on market. Mm. Um, and I think that it should be a disclosure form, like square footage disclosure. Um, and that way- Oh, yeah... we'll just get rid of this whole nonsense of pretending it hasn't been on the market for three years. Uh, and everybody and their mother knew about it but you. Mm-hmm. Um, that's the part where I think is a disservice to the buyer. And if the- I think, oh, yeah... real estate com- so remember, real estate's regulated at the state level, so it has to be a state level regulation. Well, I mean, it could be a federal regulation that supplants it, right? Like lead-based paint is a federal- Mm-hmm... regulation. I think that makes the most sense, to get rid of this, because it's deceptive. It's deceptive marketing to people that are putting- Yeah... an enormous amount of their life savings into an

Hamish: asset. I think disclosing it as well, like in, in a square footage disclosure type, uh, piece of paperwork, is almost not enough. Like it really, you know, you look at the MLS or even Zillow or any of the, you know, distributors, and it shows when the home was listed, because that impacts your offer. And, and if you're putting in an offer and, you know, you're already under contract and then they disclose to you the days on market, like uh, get ready for some renegotiation if you've had it o- you know, privately, air quotes, listed for, uh, 300 days or something, you know? Or just upsetting- Yeah... the buyer

Osman: to begin with. Um- I mean, it might kill- Yeah, it's

Hamish: gotta be proactive... the buyer's interest entirely.

Osman: So a- and- Yeah... I guess if it was like a federal form, it would look like, uh, there would be a description of what is marketing, the day that you h- did you hire an agent in the last three years, uh, to sell this home? Mm-hmm. If so, what was the date of that listing agreement, and what is, what is the days on market from that date? And I, it, I wouldn't be that complicated to have that, but at the same time, 100% would impact people's offer prices. So if they've already made the offer- Yeah... and now you're getting the disclosure that it's been on the market for thousand plus days, uh, you're gonna be, you're probably gonna kill your offer. Yeah. If, if you, if you thought it was in a private exclusive, you thought nobody else has seen this and you're the lucky one.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so interesting, interesting landscape. I'm, I'm pretty on the side of MLSs. I think also one of the questions I was asking about this Open business is, uh, isn't Zillow doing the same thing? And it's on different sides of the MLS essentially, right? Like Open is trying to make a, a platform where you would enter in your listing information of the, the home you're selling, and it would distribute it to all the MLSs, and then from the MLS it would be picked up by Zillow, is how I'm reading this. Zillow does it on the other end, right? If you post it to the MLS, it takes that and then puts it on its website from all the MLSs. So there's, I can see the value- Zillow is a-... is

Osman: maybe for like, yeah. The Zillow Group is 100% a competitor to this, and- Mm-hmm... having, trying to come up with their own solution. I agree with you completely to mention it. And Zillow's- Yeah... business model is to sell agents advertising. That's one piece of how Zillow makes money. And the other way that it makes money is by actually, um, s- signing up agents to conduct showings and write offers. They are a brokerage. Mm-hmm. So, um, w- uh, it's, it's super interesting to see all these big players try to fragment and tear apart the market and do things their own way, which is why I think there needs to be federal regulation that's in interest of the consumer, not in interest- Right ... of these big businesses that are profit maximizing for their investors. Totally different business models. And- Genuinely... uh, and, and that's why I think it's time. But 100%, you're right to call out Zillow with their own competing product, and most people don't even realize that they're a brokerage, and they click Schedule a Showing, and what you're doing is scheduling Zillow to, to, to charge agents money, right? That often- Yeah... are not the most competent. In fact, they're quite diff- like they usually don't know the market, don't know the h- the house, don't know the neighborhood, don't

Osman: know the comps. Like they literally are, click a button, and they'll go show up, and they pay a huge amount of money for that, right? Like 30% of the, of the commission. Yeah. Like crazy. Or thousands of dollars- Just to get the-... a month

Hamish: ... the lead. Mm-hmm... just to get the lead.

Osman: And, and it's, and people, consumers have no idea that this is all happening in the background.

Hamish: Yep. Yeah, Zillow's a particularly, I think, I mean, they've just continued to be, but you know, they have act- they have buyers and sellers on their interface all the time. Um, there have been instances, too, like, uh, I think it was Midwest MLS, something to that extent, um, removed, uh, Zillow's capability of distributing, uh, their listings for a while because Zillow, uh, wasn't in compliance with the MLS. And so there's, there's, uh, some MLS beef between Zillow as well. It's all just very fluid right now. Right.

Osman: Well, if you're a buyer- Yeah... and in particular- Mm... if you're buying a home that's being listed by a Compass agent, I would 100% ask this question in writing, when was the original home, when was the original listing period? Mm-hmm. Uh, how long has this home been marketed? Um, and sometimes the listing agreement might start two months before the home's marketed, so keep that in mind. Uh, ask the question in nuance, when was the first marketing of this home? Because if it turns out, you just, you just don't wanna be somebody else's, you don't wanna be a sucker, right? Like it's Ring- Right... Ringling- Yeah... Brothers and Barnum and Bailey. Like, there's a sucker born every minute. You don't wanna be that sucker, and your agent that represents you should be helping you understand the true dynamic of how this home has been marketed and, and at what price. Not just for this listing period, but for previous listing periods. That's if your goal is to make a smart decision around real estate, which is, you know, what we do. Um, and I think- Mm-hmm... any agent can, it doesn't have to be a Hause Einstein agent, any agent can ask these questions. Um, and get them in writing so you have it documented, because if it turns out they were dishonest about it,

Osman: there may be recourse for you. Yeah. Depending on the state and all sorts of other things. But this seems like a fundamental fact of the desirability of, it's sort of like the model year of the car, right? Mm-hmm. Like, I bought a 2025 Sprinter recently in 2026. They didn't pretend it was a 2026. Yeah. It's a 2025. You can't hide the mileage on the car either, right? Right. Like, these are facts that are fundamental to the, to, just like the age of the home is a fundamental fact. The age of the roof, fundamental fact. How long it's been on market I think is a fundamental fact that you should not be able to hide from as a seller. Yep. And I, we love our sellers, okay, but this is the importance of pricing it right, preparing it right, marketing it professionally to try to minimize days on market, but you can't, you can't hide from it. Um, you shouldn't-

Hamish: Mm-hmm... be able to hide from it. Yeah, I agree with that, too. You should not be able to. Um, oh, and another one is the, part of the sell being that you can privately list it. You privately list it, say, 200K over what it's worth. It doesn't sell. You can make the excuse to lower the price, right? But if you had it on this private network and you sell it, or you're under contract now for 200 over what it's worth, the, and the bu- the contract falls through, the seller could just as easily go and list it publicly for 200K under the private network. Like, it, it just creates an opportunity to fleece the buyer, like, like you've been saying. Um, but it's so defensible from the seller's standpoint because they can be like, "Oh yeah, we tested the market. It didn't work, so we lowered the price." But that also just kind of inherently means to me that anything on the private network is gonna be make believe pricing or, you know,

Osman: super optimistic pricing. Well, it's, it's the Vitamin Shoppe founder, so we were gonna talk about this. Yeah. I think we've pretty much hit this news story, but- It's good dovetail, yeah... you, you will find this story. The Vitamin Shoppe founder has his house on the Hamptons on the market. Originally, he wanted 125 million for it, quote, "off market", but I th- given that the agents involved were Compass agents, my guess is it was probably marketed as a private exclusive. Mm. Um, or, or a super private secret exclusive, just to the super wealthy that can afford $125 million house. Um, but it was marketed at 125 million. Now they actually, the, the, the Vitamin Shoppe founder has it on market for 79 million. So you're looking at $46 million difference in price. Yeah. And for that, and if you had bought it off market as a private exclusive or however it was privately marketed, you would've paid at least 46 million more than you needed to. There's a real cost to the consumer. And, and this is- Mm-hmm... like the poster child for it happening right now. I mean, granted, it's at the very high end of real estate, but it's true at all price points, um, and illustrates that you are very likely to- This is very well illustrated, yeah... you're very likely to

Osman: overpay in a private exclusive type arrangement. Not necessarily, I'm not only talking about Compass, but all types of pocket listings. You, there's a strong probability of overpaying, much more so than you're getting a deal. Mm-hmm. So keep that in mind as a consumer when you're going into this. Eyes wide open. Yeah.

Hamish: Okay. Is the horse dead? I think the horse

Osman: is dead. I think we've beaten this one to pieces. Yeah. Right? We made the point clear. You get it. Don't, don't be- You get it... don't be s- d- as my dad might say, "Don't be such a sucker." Yeah. Actually, my dad would, my

Hamish: dad would never talk that way. That sounds very New York. I would... It

Osman: sounds very New York. My, my dad- Yeah... would never talk that way.

Hamish: All right. What's the matter, you stupid? But, um- I mean, if you gotta have the house and you're, don't care what it's gonna cost, sure, I'll give that to you.

Osman: Right? I- if you wanna believe the myth that you're getting a, a, a, an exclusive special thing, uh, and are willing to pay for it, then, uh, that's fine. As long as you know- Mm-hmm... that you're, there's a good chance you're overpaying, and that there's nothing exclusive about the exclusive except for the word exclusive. That's it. That's the only thing that makes it exclusive is the word. Expensive word, yeah. And you need an app that you can get for free to look at all the exclusives- Yeah... or you can c- you contact one of however tens of thousands of agents that are at Compass, uh, to tell you the exclusive- Genuinely... like this is- Yeah... how exclusive is it? How

Hamish: special are you? Mm-hmm. I, okay, the horse will die, so I'm just gonna keep going. Um, we've got haunted houses, tales

Osman: from the crypt. All right, let's talk about haunted houses. Let's move on. Yeah. So Amityville Horror- Boy... you've seen these movies. Um, Poltergeist- Yeah... Haunting at Hill House. Uh, Americans, uh, maybe globally, people love a good- Yeah... haunted house story. And this is that time of year when haunted houses are in the news. Haunted houses are things you can go ex- experience, experience, uh, firsthand, theatrically, the haunted house. Mm. Yeah. Do you, have you ever had, have you ever lived in a haunted house, Hamish?

Hamish: I don't believe so. No, I don't think so. I, I might have stories from friends, but I, I'm very bad at remembering the details. I was gonna say, though, Poltergeist, weird haunting. Like, she got them in through the TV or something. Sorry, guys, spoilers for this 40-year-old movie. But, um, like- It's a Native American-... because the house

Osman: became haunted... they, it's a developer who

Hamish: builds- Oh, that's right... a brand-new house on a- Over a

Osman: cemetery... Native American burial ground, Hamish. Yeah. What are

Hamish: you talking about? Like, you're right. The TV- But she, like, lets them in, and then she's like, "They're here." I don't know. Chills on that part, though.

Osman: Well. Um, you know, I, I, I, I don't know what to believe on a personal level. I think that many religious and faith traditions allow for the space of other entities that we can't see, other dimensions, um, in, in, you know, angels- That's a good way to put it... demons. Uh, the Islamic tradition has something called djinns, also known as genies. Um- J-I-N-S? Yeah, that's the G-N. Okay, yeah You know, Ala- Yeah... j- uh, Aladdin and the Dj- that's djinns in Islamic traditions. Okay. But there's also Native American traditions around s- around spirits you can't see. And I, at this point, I'm very open and agnostic to this possibility existing, and family members I know quite personally, who are otherwise very rational human beings, sometimes have shared that they feel a presence or an entity. And I'm like, "Okay, I'm not gonna argue with you. I don't see it, uh, but maybe." Mm-hmm. And so, um- Leave it open... yeah, there, we have experienced, um, interesting stories, I, I have anyway, right here in Colorado dealing with real estate. There's an agent I know quite well, and actually, she's, she's pretty popular. She's on the TV quite a bit. Um, I don't- Do you know who I mean?... exactly know why. I don't think so, but I've known her- Okay... for a long time,

Osman: and she shared a story with me the first year in the business where she was working with a seller who h- had a property on market a really long time, and it wasn't selling. And they c- they couldn't figure it out, and couldn't figure it out. And they decided to have the house cleansed and blessed by a religious person, and that person came through the house and did the blessing, and, and she swears everything changed. Hm. Like, suddenly the feedback went positive, and the home was under contract within a couple of weeks of the blessing of the house. And she swears it was because of the... It was night and day, she said, as soon as- Yeah... that they had that process of cleansing of the house. And I, we, for a while even, at House Einstein, offered this, um, as a closing gift. We, there was a- Sounds very Boulder, right? That's actually pretty cool. This is very Boulder. Yeah. There, we had a Boulder house shaman, uh, somebody we knew who was, uh, a serious practitioner in Native American traditions. And I don't remember what particular tribe, but he had spent a lot of time training in this. And he's also in the tech world, so that's kinda funny as a combo. Yeah. But we, he, uh, we, for a couple of buyers, we offered it, and they took us up on it. We said, "Look, we're

Osman: happy to pay for a house blessing of the f- religious, religious tradition of your choice. Or, if you'd like- Hm... we have our own shaman that we- Shaman... could bring in, uh, that- Yeah... uh, that practices these Native American traditions." And a couple of them did the shaman. Uh, and a couple of them did their own rabbi or priest or imam who came and did a, a, you know, a reading in the house, and they wanted that. So there is this side to real estate where people want that cleansing of a home. And I never took it seriously until we started doing it. Uh, we, I haven't offered this in a long time as a- Right... closing gift. Uh, we kinda got away from it. But for sure, if somebody want, if one of our buyers seemed like this would benefit them or they would like it, we would, we would do it again. Um- I was kinda like how do you,

Hamish: uh, bring it up? You're like, "Not that I think you need it, but..." You know? Like, "Congrats on your sale." You know- You know?... we've noticed

Osman: some dark things at this house. Yeah. So maybe you want a house blessing. Um, uh, you know, it came up quite naturally a- as part of the- Okay... closing experience. Like, the walkthrough, it'd be like, "Hey, by the way, like, you know, this is the time to talk about closing gifts. Uh, we sometimes do a Home Depot gift card, or we can take you out to a really nice dinner and celebrate together. We'd love to do that with you. Or if you'd like, if this interests you, we can, um, pay for your house blessing by the- Mm-hmm... spiritual tradition of your choice."

Hamish: And, um- Yeah, that's pretty good... it,

Osman: you know, mo- most people just took the Home Depot gift card, to be quite frank. Uh, which is totally fine, but we gave people choices. We felt like that was a nice way to do it. Um, but I actually personally had a house blessed. So this is a bit of a sad story. We bought a house in Martin Acres not that many years ago, and we were in a bidding war for this house. Um, and it was an estate sale. The owner had, was traveling and had passed away while they were traveling, and the adult siblings of the owner were selling the house as part of the estate sale. Um, and it was clear there was distress, right? Like, the home had not been updated in many, many years. And, uh, it looked like also had been maintained quite poorly. So we were not surprised that it was an older person, but they weren't that old. And it turned out they may have been an alcoholic and a drug user. I, I don't know for sure. But we felt really bad- Hm... uh, for the seller's family that they lost their brother. And, uh, the house, it, it had a weird vibe to it. Um, and, and at closing We- I expressed to the seller's family, "I'm so sorry about the passing of your brother" And that's when I was really caught by surprise, 'cause I had not met them before, right? I was

Osman: representing myself as the buyer and they were at the closing, and they were like, "Thank you for your, your comments, your, your expression, um, but we're actually really glad that he's gone because he has been a problem for our family- Geez... for a very, very long time." And basically the, the story is the kid, the, the adult that died ended up owning the house, was one of several siblings and had all these issues, and became- Hmm... like the baby that was taken care of by the parents, and were a problem for the parents while the parents were alive, were a problem for the siblings throughout his life, and when he finally died, it was probably because of a drug overdose or related to drug and alcohol use, and they were glad he's gone because it was finally over. It had been a torment- An end to the strain, kind of... it was strain. Yeah. It was tormentful, it was difficult, and they were really glad to see him gone. Okay, so that was a bit of a surprise. And then when we moved into the house, it felt kind of, particularly in the primary bathroom, it felt really, it felt off.

Hamish: I don't know what else to say. Yeah, off is like the best way, you know?

Osman: Yeah. And so we had the shamanic house blessing. He smudged the house and he blessed the house, and when he got to that bathroom, he paused and he said, "I feel a lot of darkness in this space." Hmm. "This is where I think he frequently was shooting up drugs and really unhappy with his life." And he spent a lot of time blessing that space. And I gotta tell you, it felt different afterward. And my, my wife was very clear, like, "This house feels so different after that house blessing." Wow. So, and this was shortly after this, you know, individual had passed and, uh, and knowing the backstory, uh, we, we paid for the shamanic house blessing. So I am, you know, a customer of, uh, despite my high rationality in science and math- Right... and finance background, um, I'm okay with contributing for the, to the spiritual realm and, and hoping to release this, this trapped soul, if that's what was happening. I don't even know what was happening. I just, it felt different, uh, and it was money well spent.

Hamish: Leave it to the shaman. Yeah. I mean, that's the ra- rationally speaking or anything, it's like you can't put a finger on it, but when the vibe shifts or the energy improves or something like that, you're like, "Okay, well, I'm still skeptical, but that was a little too night and day of a difference," you know?

Osman: I mean, maybe it's just my childhood. You know, we had, we grew up in a Cape Cod style house with a basement, and that's where my parents set up like a little rec room with a throw carpet and a couch and a TV. Mm-hmm. And that's where we would watch cartoons. And as a little kid, I, you know, I used to get really scared watching Scooby-Doo. Like, I was really- Same ... like scared the heck out of me as a small child. Yeah. And so that was in a basement, and I got to admit, the first few years in real estate, I was never excited to go into dark basements. I mean, at this point I'm fine with it. Um, I, yeah, I've got a flashlight on my phone. Um, I, I, I will go into dark basements. Sometimes I'm secretly thrilled my client goes first. But- ... we will go down into the basement. Yeah. And I, I have no problem with going into dark basements, but at, at the, the first few years, I definitely felt a little uncomfortable, um, going into a dark basement. It's probably because of, uh, because of that childhood upbringing.

Hamish: Yeah. I'm just always like, uh, "Don't think about it. Don't think about..." You know, as long as I can keep my self focused. If I m- wonder or try to hear something or catch something out of the corner of my eye, I'll start seeing stuff, you know? So it's like blinders. Um, the worst is when you're leaving the basement and you like turn off the light and then dart up the stairs, right? 'Cause the light, it's like keeping you alive. Like nothing grabs you- Oh... when you're going up. Childhood,

Osman: childhood. Um- So- I mean, there are things that go bump in, in the night. And, uh, and so I think it's, everyone has their own comfort levels. I do feel for the, the lady realtors, I'll be quite honest with you, like doing showings with people they don't know or going into dark basements. I- Seriously... they, they're far more vulnerable than you and I as burly

Hamish: dudes going into basements. Um- Mm-hmm... Hamish, for the record, 6'3"- Yeah, no kidding... I'm 6'2",

Osman: um, and we're both- Yeah... pretty, pretty muscular humans, so we're not at, at the same level of threat as, uh, as lady realtors typically are, so.

Hamish: Yeah. No, that's a good

Osman: point. Well, one- Okay... one more piece I wanna mention. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. You were about to say something. So when I was looking

Hamish: for an intro for the pod, um, GPT actually suggested telling about the stories of a couple haunted houses in Boulder. I, uh, decided against it because I was like, well, there are addresses involved and all sorts of things, but I have them here if you want me to, um, quickly gloss them or not. No,

Osman: let's not do it. I don't wanna- Okay... I, 'cause I know that the Ramsey house for sure will come up and I really don't wanna... Oh, no. I just don't wanna go there- Me either, yeah ... because these are, these are people's actual homes- Yeah... and we live and work in this community. That's kind of where I was at. And I, I don't wanna, um, dox people's houses with proclaiming- Yeah... them haunted when, uh, you know. So, so these are- I'm with you... so where I would like to move though is to talk about how some states have laws- Yeah... that mandate disclosure of, um, psychological factors with a home, such as somebody died in the home or somebody was murdered in the home. Um, prior to major hospitals, people died in homes all the time, and still do today in hospice situations, so it's not uncommon that someone died in a house, but most people don't think about that when they're buying a house. And if there was some sort of tragic event, uh, a murder, a homicide, a suicide, some states actually require that disclosure. Colorado does not. So you, sellers are not obliged to tell you if that happened, and, uh, but sometimes the neighbors will. We looked at a property a couple of years ago

Hamish: We had some lovely clients- I was just gonna bring this up... and

Osman: while we were looking at it, uh, we went and talked to the neighbors, which is always really good due diligence. We strongly recommend it. And the neighbor disclosed that there was a, um, young boy who had committed suicide in the house, and I think the boy was, like, 12 or 13 years old, like, quite young. Yeah. And resulted in the couple that, his parents getting divorced shortly after, and now they were selling the house. Um, and it wasn't widely known that this had happened in the home. D- suicide is not something that there's, like, a database you can check on, but it definitely gave our clients a little bit of pause. Uh, in the end, they decided that was not a f- something that they, would keep them from purchasing the home. But we, I was glad that the neighbor shared it, 'cause I feel like had they been caught by surprise with that information, they might feel quite differently. Mm-hmm. Um, particularly given that they were having children, uh, planning to.

Hamish: Yeah. So- I was really impressed with them

Osman: being rational on that one, you know? They, they needed to think about it and talk about it- Yeah... because it had never occurred to them that they might have feelings about this, 'cause y- you don't think about these things when you're looking at homes. But there have been homicides in Boulder, there have been suicides, there have been tragic events, and some, for some, like my mom, this would really matter. It would kill- Mm-hmm... her interest entirely. Mine too, yeah. Uh, just she would not want to go to this... You know, she's very superstitious, very religious, and there's zero chance that a home where somebody, especially a young child, committed suicide, I think she would just never feel good- That one's especially grisly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um- It, it matters to a lot of people. Mm-hmm.

Hamish: Ooh, before we move on,

Osman: uh, if you were- Hold on, let me l- Oh, you go... let me just stay on this topic for, last thing I want to mention, this is why we strongly recommend you talk to the neighbors, because the neighbors are gonna feel uncomfortable with you not knowing, because they know there's a psychological stigma on this house- Mm-hmm... because of what happened, and they are not g- uh, if they're good people, they're gonna want you to know before you write your offer, because that way they, they could sleep at night, they didn't keep something from you. Um, and I think that's right. It's a good point. Right? I, if, if, if that, something like that happened with my neighborhood and it was the neighbor that had a tragic, like, event, like, I would want you to know, uh- Mm-hmm... that I didn't keep that s- that a secret. Uh, just knowing how much it potentially impacts your lived experience in the home, as well as how much you might be willing to pay for it.

Hamish: Yeah. No, good point.

Osman: I mean, that's The Amityville Story, right? The Amityville Story- That is... is that there was a mur- there was, like, a murder-suicide in the house, like, a multiple mur- like, the guy killed his whole family. I mean,

Hamish: grisly, yeah.

Osman: Right? A grisly murder, and then the house sits on the market for a long time, and these suckers from out of town show up, and they're like, "My God, it's such a great deal," and they buy the house, and either they didn't know quite fully what happened or they didn't know at all, and then they get possessed by the spirits in that house. Like, that's the classic- Mm... Amityville story.

Hamish: Like, through and through. All right,

Osman: you ready? I'm ready.

Hamish: Podcast 94 is last year's Halloween episode, if you wanna hear more of our, uh, ghoulish stories and, uh, Halloween-themed segments. I just thought I'd include that, uh, in case you didn't get your fill here.

Osman: Yeah, there you go. Enjoy our- Yeah... more talking about ghosts and ghouls and scary things that go bump in the night. And whatnot. And, and whatnot. Yeah. And s- and things that normally we don't talk about, like spiritual beliefs around the afterlife, and entities that might be possessing a house or possessing humans, and boy, there's all this spooky, scary stuff. And I swear, I'm a very rational human being, a very, like, fact and- Yeah... not my normal realm, but having worked with enough buyers and sellers, and having v- uh, very spiritually inclined family members, I, I think this is

Hamish: actually a weirdly important topic. Should at least be discussed. I think, like, the disclosure of, like, the grisly things, like you said, are important. I think they affect your attitude around the house. Also, if you decide to move in and there's weird stuff happening, you're gonna be like, "Okay, ghosts," like, "I'll get it blessed." You know? Reach, and, and- If you don't know-

Osman: And reach out to me, I'll call my shaman- Mm... and we'll get it taken care of. Yeah. Clients only. No. No, we're, I'm happy to pass along the contact info. I gotta check if he still does- Nothing... if our shaman is still in business, but I think he would. Uh, because he looks at- Yeah... it as, honestly, it's not about the money, it's about the service. It's about the- Mm-hmm... it's about releasing, you know, the, the trapped entity. It's about being- Yeah... right with the spiritual world for him. It's not about a business hustle at all. Zero advertising, only word of mouth, and I notice the difference in our house, so I would recommend him. There you go.

Hamish: Speaking of scary, is it scary? It's scary. Market update?

Osman: Market update. Is it time for a market update?

Hamish: Could be time for a market update. Okay, let's get into it.

Osman: So this update is for the city of Boulder, and let me define that for you. This is Boulder proper, and I, I create a little map of Boulder proper that I think identifies what most people think of as the city of Boulder, which excludes Gunbarrel. Um, it goes a little bit east, but it doesn't go all the way out to the reservoir on the east side of town. It doesn't go into the foothills on the west side of town. It truncates at, uh, the south end of town, where Chanhassen Ridge is, and on the north side of town, it truncates at Dakota Ridge. I'm happy to share this map with you, but after 20-plus years in Boulder real estate, that's what most people think of as the city of Boulder. Legally, inside that map, there are little parcels of unincorporated Boulder County, and it's ridiculous- Right... but it exists. You can see this patchwork happen in the city, and, and so therefore, I do this little map, just because I, it helps me understand what's happening for most of our, what, what most of our buyers would consider Boulder proper. So this is single-family homes only, and we're looking at the current inventory, whether it's active or it's pending or it's backup status or it's coming soon. All of that's included. And then I look at the sales from

Osman: the last 30 days. And so here's some pictures for single-family houses, not condos and townhomes, that a plo- that is happening right now at the end of October. And keep in mind that in the, about November 7th or 8th, we'll, we'll update this with the official analysis from the MLS after the data has been inputted, hopefully all of it, but you know how agents are. Um, so this is- Mm... this is based as of today. Big picture, homes under 1.5 are still selling in about two months, and above three million, there's about 19 months- ... of inventory. So year and a half of inventory, more than a year and a half of inventory if you're above three million. Yeah. So this is that tale of two markets. Um, the median sale price in the last 30 days was 1.3 million, or about 527 a square, and the median days on market was 58. Uh, the median home sold 1.8% under list price. So all of that is very normal, right? That looks like a very healthy market, but hidden within that is this tale of two markets. Um, uh- Of only 12 of the 49 homes that sold in the last 30, uh, the last 30 days sold at or above the list price. Uh, just five of them, um, went over. 2310 Kenwood, 2803 Cordry, which we'll talk about in this week's notable sales.

Hamish: Hmm. 4744 Kellogg, 1145 Claremont,

Osman: and 2856 Street. It's not our Claremont. No. It's close. It's very close. It's not our Claremont. I see you highlighting it. Yeah.

Hamish: It's not our Claremont. No. I'm like, "Let me look at that." We, we did,

Osman: we did have a sale on Claremont not that long... It's a very similar number. I think ours is 1245 or something very similar. Mm-hmm. But this is not, that's not our Claremont. Yeah. The median active listing right now is 1.9 million, and has been on the market 72 days, and 93 of the 174 active listings, or 53%, are past that 60-day mark. Um, and 65 of those listings, or roughly 37%, are past 90 days on market. Yeah. Ranches are where it's at. As you well know, Hamish, this is my preferred investment. Mm-hmm. Uh, ranches with or without a basement, preferably with a basement. Um, 19 one-story ranches sold in the last 30 days with a median price of a million and 34 days on market. That 34 days on market really reflects going under contract pretty fast, and likely closing with a mortgage, 'cause usually you need 21 to 30 days to get a mortgage funded. 19 two-story homes sold for 1.4 and took 68 days, or twice as long, so that means they probably had some price corrections- Sure... along the way, unlike the r- the single story ranches. Okay. That's our little market update. Yeah, I was just doing...

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's just becoming more and more pronounced, the, uh, the ranch versus two-story housing type division. Uh, some of the showings that I went on earlier this week, I mean, they were all two-story homes, uh, give or take a few, and, um, they'd been on the market the lo- the most. And for the s- right type of buyer, I mean, it's a, a almost a more preferred layout,

Osman: so. You mean the two story is more preferred. Yeah. You know, and, uh, I mean, if, I, I would prefer a two story, but I get why the ranches are actually higher in demand. Mm-hmm. Uh, they work for more types of buyers. Uh- Right... particularly people that may have a mobility issue or may have a mobility issue in the future, and you can add a extra story on a ranch pretty easily, uh, a- at least compared- Cost-effective... to tri-levels and bi-levels. Yeah. It's, it's not that hard to do an addition,

Hamish: so. Hmm. What do you, what is it called? The, complete sidebar, but the, uh, laminated engineered wood beams. It's called an LVL or something like that. Yep. Yep. Okay. Yep. Curious.

Osman: Okay. Correct. That's what they're called. Thanks. People will also use steel, but LVLs are far cheaper and more easily worked by GCs than a big steel beam. Mm-hmm. But steel beams can obviously carry a lot more load. Yeah. And you need, you need an engineer to stamp either approach, by the way. Don't just go throwing a s- a beam

Hamish: in your ceiling. Yeah, I would, I would- Not that

Osman: I've ever, not that I've ever done that. Yeah. Not that I've ever done that. I would be sur-...

Hamish: Okay. Anyhow.

Osman: All right. Let's, let's move on. Sales of the week. 2750 Vassar Drive is our first sale of the week, and this is in Table Mesa. Um, it's a location that you'll see all these collegiate names on the, uh, the south s- sorry, the north side of Table Mesa. So not far from, um...

Osman: Hang on a second. Not that far from Highland Park. Um, it is, w- it's interesting because we did a walking tour of this neighborhood not that long ago, and there's a lot of really unique architecture tucked into these neighborhoods. Stanford, Regis, Yale- Hmm... Hartford Drive- Carnegie... where we have a few clients.

Hamish: Carnegie. Um,

Osman: this particular house was a restored 1964 mid-century ranch with, uh, Lyon sandstone on the outside. It sold for 1.96 million cash, so just slightly under list. Uh, 1.75% under list, and was under contract four days on market, but likely could've been under contract one or two days under, you know, on market. You're not required to change the MLS status for three business days, so- Hmm... we don't really know what the true days on market is. Um, but it closed 20 days later, and it's a classic ranch with a basement. Um, has, has views, has a big 10,000 square foot lot, 10,500, similar to our, our Kenwood sale, Hamish, in terms of- Mm-hmm... of size, and not that dissimilar in terms of, you know, lot size and house size. 2,400 square feet garage, but had- Yeah... a, it says two-car detached garage. I thought the garage was attached in the photos. Um- Yeah, I'm still looking. Yeah... no, I guess it's, I guess it's detached, which is cool, and the architecture is nice. Um, the one thing to look really closely in these Table Mesa houses is, uh, at, for foundation deterioration. Mm-hmm. We've seen a few of them that have had major issues that were not fully disclosed by the seller, uh, but luckily we caught as part of the inspection process, and, uh,

Osman: ended up negotiating pretty hefty concessions to address. Um, you know, one of the nice things about homes that have not been prettied up or dolled up for sale is that, uh, you can see where the cracks are happening. Sure. Unlike a home that's recently been painted, the painters are, you know, they're paid to, to, well, to mask over all of the superficial cracks, but sometimes they do more than just the superficial ones. I thought this was a really nicely designed house, uh, in terms of its interior. Mm-hmm. Um, there's a lot of photos of that central fireplace, which is kind of a mid-century touch. Uh, but that's not, you know, that's kind of the only real mid-century... I mean, the exterior for sure. Right. But in- inside, it doesn't have a lot of classic mid-century design elements. Um, so just for, for those listening that are, are not aware of this, that are not architects, um, just because it was built in the '50s or '60s-... does not make it mid-century. Uh, it's actually a, a style. It's not just a vintage.

Hamish: Some agents would be very mad if they could re- hear that, Osman I'm sure. If they like to list anything build date, you know

Osman: Everything built in the '50s is mid-century. Uh, no. Yeah. No, it's not. Um, but I think this is- I-... a cool house, and it makes sense that it went pretty quick. Vassar is a great street, and the big lot and the views, it all plays into a very well played, uh, purchase, and helps bolster our client's investment, uh, in a home that needed lots of updates, uh, but sold for $600,000 less than this one.

Hamish: More than $600,000. And it's, uh, this one's just shy of Highland Park proper, call it, right? Um, so I mean-

Osman: Yeah... yeah, nice, nice location. In- I would call it in- in- inferior location to our sale on Kenwood, but- Mm-hmm... nicer home in terms of its updates. And also illustrates that buyers are willing to pay a premium for an updated house, because you could turn that Kenwood house into this one for probably half the cost, uh- Yeah... and then have $300,000 of upside,

Hamish: and a better location. Yeah, that's a good point. I'm excited for our closing dinner with that Kenwood, uh, client. This house too, and the Kenwood one as well, but sticking to the, this being the sale of the week, um, I really love understated homes from the street. However, when you walk in, it's bright, it's open and, and, you know, what it has to show off is not visible from the street. That's a, a style choice I think I'm quite a, quite a big fan of. Yep.

Osman: Yeah. I think they paid fair market, 'cause this, the detached- Mm-hmm ... garage adds value. The updates look like they're nicely done. The one thing, excuse me, the one thing you cannot tell without walking in is whether or not it was done as a flip. And I mean, the last time it was on market officially was 2019. Mm. Um, and the owners are the same from 2019, so probably not done as a flip, but it, it's, you have to go look at it in person. And for an experienced agent, it's visible and obvious within seconds of walking into a listing whether it was done as a flip or not. Almost always. Not, not always, but almost always. Mm-hmm. All right, let's move on- Okay... to the next one. Really quick,

Hamish: detached garage is a benefit why?

Osman: Um, well, uh, you're not introducing devices full of fuel into your house. Yep. Into your living structure, for one thing. I mean, I, I personally would prefer to have the workshop noises and the chemicals- Mm-hmm... and the fuel stored in a separ- a building with some separation from where I'm sleeping at night, and I've been told that garages are, like, the number one source of where fires begin in homes. I don't know if that's true or not. I was told that by somebody. Um, so- Yeah... I think, you know, some people like attached garages because you don't have to walk through the snow- Snow... or the rain to get into your house. Uh, but sometimes you can have a covered walkway between the two. Like, it doesn't have to be that tragic to get between the garage and your house. Um- Mm-hmm. No, complete

Hamish: agreement. I j- I kn- could just imagine somebody being like, "But why isn't it attached?" And, and that's typically why. I think the fire risk is a big one, uh, from an insurance standpoint too, if I'm not mistaken. Hmm.

Osman: Well, I don't know about the insurance side, but most people don't seem to have a strong preference for attached or detached. I think detached offers the additional possibility of going above it and creating an apartment above it, that I've seen done quite frequently, and sometimes done very well.

Hamish: Mm-hmm. All right.

Osman: 3130 Kittrell- Sell twos? ... Court is our next- Mm-hmm... sale of the week. Built in the '70s. Uh, also not very far from this. It's, you know, the, it, it, it's technically the Rolling Hills subdivision, but no one calls this Rolling Hills subdivision. People just call this Table Mesa. Um, it's a, it's an interesting house. Uh, it's a, like I said, it's a '70s tri-level, um, on a cul-de-sac, which is definitely desirable. It has great views. And it was on the market, let's see, originally listed, ooh, a while ago. The seller was, was hoping, uh, and their agent, of course, who markets themselves as being the expert of pricing in South Boulder, listed it- Right... at two and a quarter, and then chased it. So they dropped it once, twice, three times, four times, before they finally landed at 1.75. Uh, they had taken it off the market for two weeks. Uh, I'm not sure what they did August 31st through September 14th, but they came back with a much more attractive price, and then it's, got under contract pretty quickly after that. Uh, three days of in coming soon status, a week before it switched to under contract, and then sold about a month later. Normal, uh, conventional fixed rate mortgage. And, you know, this, the location is excellent. The tri-level design is not as desirable as

Osman: ranches or two stories. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's on the high side of Kittrell, and it should have some nice views of, of Viele Lake down below.

Hamish: Um, I mean- The remodeling looks like it kind of helped with the tri-level, you know, walking in and seeing the stairs too a little bit. Like they

Osman: made some more room. I think there's an addition on it, because it has 2,800 square feet. Yeah. I have not gone through the permit records to verify, but it looks like they added square footage somewhere. Um, and it's gonna be pretty private in the backyard, and- Mm-hmm... I mean, some of the, some of the finishes are a little on the dated side, like the glass block

Hamish: shower and the, and the older- Hey, that's coming back. I maintain that. Glass block- Um-... is gonna be in

Osman: again. Maybe. But what's up with that sink in the kitchen?

Hamish: I didn't notice the sink. I just, I did like the kitchen, though. I like the way that they kept it, um, what is it? Kind of separated with that lower wall section, uh, from the ceiling. But, let me see.

Osman: Go look at the sink, Hamish. I'm searching. I'm searching.

Hamish: What the... Yeah.

Osman: Dude. You know what? We want our sink- Okay... to be in the corner...

Hamish: listeners, link's in the bio. Check it out.

Osman: We'll leave it there. But s- Yeah... some of these updates are pretty nice, some of them are pretty dated, but at least updated from original with the addition. And you can see the views through some of the photos. You know, what's funny is the views are not really emphasized in the listing, and I suspect- Mm-mm... because you also have lots of other houses in the views, but there's not even, like, an aerial shot. Like, it's- Yeah... like, I, I don't get it. Like, you- Well,

Hamish: aerials are extra from most a- okay, there are

Osman: aerials. Are there? Or they actually- Oh, I guess there, okay, there are... kind of. There are some aerials. They're just sort of blown out, and they're not- Yeah. Yeah, there are aerials. I apologize. I'm wrong about that. Okay. I mean, so- Anyway, that's 3130 Cattail, 1, 1.71, typical discount from their final list price, uh, but probably longer than a typical listing period. I think, you know, this is, the location is a premium, but I think the tri-level design- Mm-hmm... just kind of took away the thunder. Yep. All right. And Cattail's

Hamish: nice. Uh, it's one of the non-through streets in Table Mesa. It's a great spot. As well from a traffic standpoint. It's a great spot.

Osman: Yeah. 100%. Okay. Awesome spot.

Hamish: Yeah. A+ location. Ooh. All right.

Osman: Our next one is 3880 Chippewa, and I have been waiting to talk about this deal because-... uh, we looked at this house a bunch of times with a buyer, and we actually offered on it, and we ended up offering quite low, but, uh, the seller didn't even counter. And the irony is if they had countered, we probably would've gotten a contract around the same price, and they would've sold it about a month earlier, maybe even more than a month earlier. And one of the reasons we had offered so low is because Cartus was involved, which is a relocation company. And, um, once we got the documentation from the seller about Cartus- Yeah... and how their involvement works, it created a lot of additional uncertainty in the deal, and additional risk for the buyer because the seller effectively washes their hands entirely from ownership of the property, and Cartus has all these disclosures that they also disavow all this potential liability with the house. And although homes are sold in as-is, where-is condition, that's very clearly written into the contract, sellers are still potentially liable for failure to disclose and all sorts of other things. And I, I, and my impression was Cartus was, you know, the process of documenting everything wrong with the house and providing it to

Osman: the buyer is a good approach to helping manage- Mm-hmm... that transaction process. But for our buyer and the timing, um, it just didn't work. Uh, we also realized the roof was really old, and there were a bunch of other factors- Sure... that, that gave us pause. Um, but the irony, of course, is that the price ended up very close to where we would've landed had the seller countered, and they didn't. And so that brings me to the second point, and this is something I, I told my client about. I warned him, like, "If we're not gonna..." So we offered low, we anchored it to a number, and that was almost certainly their first offer. And at that point, uh- Yeah... that, that anchor is part of the negotiation going forward, whether it's us or it's another buyer. And so this buyer who closed on this house, uh, got the benefit of our anchor at a very low price. But the house itself was great. So Frasier Meadows, which is our target market, about the right size, between 3,000 and 4,000 square feet, a decent sized lot, and nicely updated, and updated in a way that didn't feel like it was a cheap flip. It felt like it was pretty solid quality. Uh, we had some layout questions of how it would work for our particular buyer between the living room and the, and the dining room. Like, there

Osman: was some questions of flow, um, some spaces they felt like they wouldn't really use. But, you know, in conversations with them, we could've changed the interior design to suit them a little better. But they felt more comfortable letting it go and not offering again because of- Mm... Cartus, frankly, being involved, and what felt like lack of, I don't know, respect or interest in our offer. Like, our number wasn't ridiculous. Our number was- Lack of collaboration maybe? Yeah. I think it was, like, 1.5 something. It wasn't horrible. Mm-hmm. And it's real money. 1.56, yeah. It was cash and closing with a reasonable timeframe. But the timeframe turned out to not matter that much because Cartus slowed the whole process down. Um, but I was surprised to read all that Cartus, you know, contract language once we got it from them, all the disclosures, and I agreed with my client. It did increase risk in the deal, but I, I personally would've rather have come back with another offer after a few weeks, and he did not feel, they did not feel inclined to do so, I think partially because of the lack of perceived interest in the s- in the listing agent in trying to get this deal done with us. So- Right... it sold for about what we would've paid for it, just about 30 days later than it probably

Osman: would've, uh, if our client had, um, had been the buyer- Mm... which makes me a little sad. But great house, and I think the buyer got- Yeah... de- decent value for this house. And, um, and, uh, we're still on the hunt, so if, uh, if... And this is a good point to mention it, and then we'll just shift to- Oh, yeah... shameless self-promotion. Um, if you are a owner in Frasier Meadows with a home sil- similar to 3880 Chippewa, then reach out to us. We have a buyer who's very respectful, will pay fair market value for the house, uh, but is also very thorough, would like to understand the home and make sure that they are going in eyes wide open. But one of our favorite clients ever because of their transparency and their ethics, and also their discipline in, uh, in not s- overpaying for a house, and also, uh, in, in, in, in the scope of things, people that play by the rules. Mm-hmm. I'll leave it- Yeah... I'll leave it at that. Yeah.

Hamish: Yeah. And, and, uh, I mean, I, uh, all I d- can do is agree with you on the, the read of this house and everything too. I think it was a, a great house, and, um- Did you see it? Yeah, we saw-

Osman: Did you go see it? I saw it with you guys,

Hamish: uh, once, I believe. And I agree on the roof. The roof was aged. But I love these types of ranches. Um, you know, Frasier Meadows and the home types there, just some of my favorite. Hate to be biased- Well, the dis-... but I like that neighborhood... the disclosure doc-

Osman: the disclosure documents, Hamish, al- not just was the roof old. I, I recall there being mention of organic growth on the, um, on the, what's it called? Sheathing. So it's not uncommon if the roof- Oh... is failing, it's really old, th- the sheathing is now getting wet. So- What that means is they're gonna bill you per piece of sheathing, and there may be additional charges to do some mold treatments up there. Mm. And it was really interesting to just hear the complete lack of listening, right, to that, the factor in where our numbers are, or we could... And, and so th- and then, then there's also this question of deal order. Do you bring that up with the initial offer, or do you wait for that to be discovered through inspections? And meanwhile, Cartus has sh- sent you this documentation that says there's something up there- Mm-hmm... but we're gonna need to go look at it ourself and understand what it's gonna cost. So there's kind of a song and dance that happens between buyers and sellers on what's fair and reasonable. And I don't know, some sellers just think, uh, buyers are willing to overpay for any asset. And, and there are buyers that don't do their due diligence. And so I wonder what happened in this particular deal, but it is a great house, and all the issues we saw

Osman: were correctable. So I'm a little bummed. Yeah. But we'll move on. Mm-hmm. There, as I, as I tell all of our clients, there's always another house.

Hamish: Yeah, always. Okay. Yeah, good pick. 280- 70,000 under list, that one. Sorry.

Osman: Yeah. 20- 2803 Cordry Court is our next listing, and this home hit the market on September 17th at price for a fight, 1.2 million. And it attracted- Wow... multiple offers, almost certainly because it sold for 110,000 over list, uh, and closed about a month later. So it closed, uh, with a conventional fixed rate mortgage, not a cash deal. Um, this is, this little neighborhood, okay, what's really funny is the subdivision is listed as unknown on the MLS. Mm. Uh, it's tucked between Scott Carpenter Park and Gold Run and the 28th Street Frontage Road. And then there really aren't that many houses tucked in here, like maybe a dozen or so, but it's actually kinda quiet. Well, it's not quiet-quiet from a street noise perspective, but it's quiet from a who's actually in this neighborhood. Activity. It's, it's a- Right... and it's really centrally located. It's so close to Scott Carpenter and the bike path. There's a lot to like about the location, and this particular lot was very generous at 15,000 square feet. So large lot, but also, um, I think this is in the 100-year flood. Oh, no, no, hold on. They listed it as 100-year high risk, 500-year and moderate risk. So that's, like, real interesting. I'm gonna go look at the map right now, 'cause,

Hamish: um- The listing agent doesn't know. They just selected everything they could find.

Osman: It looks like they disclosed everything, right? Like we're gonna- Yeah. So this is silly because in the city of Boulder, there is a comprehensive floodplain map that the city has put together that takes all the firm parcels from FEMA and, um, and overlays them, and they used to include the historic flood extent, although I think they recently have removed

Hamish: that, which is sort of- I think they still have it. I thought it was just toggleable. Oh, maybe.

Osman: Okay. Yeah. So when we look at that- But, I mean, yeah... this house is 100% in the, in the 100-year flood and in the high conveyance zone. Um,

Hamish: hang on a second. I'll say every time the, uh, flood zone- Yeah... mentions, you're gonna find a link to the lookup in the show description. So if you wanna- Well-... check out the floodplain map.

Osman: I mean, the one thing that's, it's not in is the 500 year, so I think that maybe they just were hoping you didn't, they clicked that just for funsies. I'm not sure why they would... Yeah. I'm, uh- I mean, this is the high hazard zone. So that, it's super interesting. Yeah, 100 year. Um, are you looking at the map as well?

Hamish: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Osman: I mean, the structure is in the 100 year, but the front of the house is in the high hazard zone, and Cordry Court is, the actual street, is the conveyance zone. So, you know, in the event- Mm-hmm... of another 2013 flood, it's very likely gonna get moisture of some kind. And, and I, if, a- and knowing what happened in 2013, if we were the agent, we would, yeah, on the buy side, we would've been looking for flood type damage, uh, to see what they, and also what sort of mitigation they did, 'cause most homes with a basement got some water damage, and this particular house has a basement. Um, all right. So what do we love? I think the location's actually very livable, and the lot's very large. Mm. The floodplain risk is a big deal. The vaulted ceilings and, uh, and it's not quite post-and-beam, but the vaulted ceilings in the interior are, are kinda cool. Um, I would call that a, a very attractive interior, but dated. Yeah. In some of the photos, quite dated, but in other photos, not quite so dated, which makes me- ... wonder if I'm looking at AI in some cases.

Hamish: Um- These wood panels, man, they, they're doing a lot of disservice to this house on the walls. Yeah,

Osman: but the irony is that we see wood paneling sometimes in high-end houses today. It, it's a different style of, it's not this cheap, you know, manufactured wood paneling. It's something quite different, but,

Hamish: um- Right. It's full circle, though, in a sense. I mean, the, it just gets weird at

Osman: photo 12, where the, the primary bedroom looks so, you know, updated comparatively to the, the rest of the house. But I think overall, the home is in pretty dated condition. Mm-hmm. And, um, and I, I mean, this is where I would've discouraged our, uh, go- going into a bidding war for this asset, knowing you cannot do any improvements that exceed ... So there are all these rules, right, around, um, what you're allowed to do with a home in the 100-year flood, and you cannot exceed more than 50% of the assessed value of the structure alone, um, in terms of new permits. Well, sorry, in terms of cumulative permits. That's right. Yeah. So, so this looks back on all the permits throughout time, and if your cumulative permits are in excess of your assessed value, you, in theory, shouldn't Be granted a permit Approved, yeah And the improvement value is 581,200. So it's pretty unlikely that the permits have gotten to that level, given how unupdated this home is. But you also can't do, you can't add more than a certain percentage of square footage because of the floodplain. So this is a home that, even though there was a bidding war for, I would have strongly discouraged our client to pay 9% over list for this, um, unless... I mean, if they go in with eyes wide open, it's their decision.

Osman: And it was priced aggressively at 1.2, given the lot size, but that's only if you didn't know all the floodplain restrictions. And we've seen that story before with other properties that were acquired and then relisted in a short period of time, sometimes within a year, when the new owner discovers they can't do what they thought they could do. Yeah. And it would not surprise me if 2803 Cordry Court suffers a similar fate. Because if you think you're buying a 15,000 square foot lot with subdivision potential and all that, absolutely, 1.3 all day long. Um, and it's certainly, it's advertised as this giant lot, and they're talking about the zoning, R01, potential for a second home and/or future subdivision is written into the listing description. And this is where if we're the listing agent of this, we also have a document that asks the buyer to acknowledge they're aware of the

Hamish: floodplain restriction. Because- Yeah

Osman: ... we, our thought is they're gonna figure it out. But in practice, not everybo- everybody does, and that's why you see these things come boomerang, boomeranging back to market in less than a year's time. So keep an eye out for 2803 Cordry Court. We'll find out if the buyer knew or didn't know, uh, about the floodplain restrictions.

Hamish: Yeah, no kidding. This little pocket area, I mean, there's a few little ones kind of along 28th Street, like these kind of frontage road type of neighborhoods. What do you think the long-term future is for these? Like, you think they'll get rezoned or they'll become businesses? Like, it's just- I mean, like-... funky to see a little pocket neighborhood

Osman: like this. I mean, CU is everywhere here, right? Gold Run is to the- Yeah... south, which is, which is a privately owned development, individual owners. But to the west, you've got all that CU housing that was built. And on the other side of the street, you have the former Millennium. Mm-hmm. That's all student housing. So I don't think that CU is in the business of eminent domain. So I think it's gonna stay single-family houses. And the floodplain restrictions, unless there's re-engineering on Boulder Creek, the floodplain restrictions are gonna keep it locked in amber as single-family houses forever. Um, but they're- Yeah... they're isolated from what most people think of as kind of a cozy family neighborhood. I mean, you're kind of surrounded by industrial and CU. The, the saving grace is, boy, you're right there on the Boulder Creek path, and you've got Scott Carpenter Park. True. Um, so those are real nice benefits. I don't think the 28th Street shopping area there with Safeway is much of anything to get excited about. It's probably the most run-down and beat-up grocery store in Boulder. Um, so-... it's convenient, um, in terms of you can cross underneath the 28th Street. Uh, you can cross under the fr- you can take the... There's a, there's,

Hamish: there's- That's right, yeah... tunnels underneath.

Osman: You can get to the other side. You can go right on the creek path and get to the other side. So you're really close to downtown. You've got all sorts of shopping all over the place. But, um, primarily, I think what- Super

Hamish: unique little... Yeah

Osman: ... what you see is what you get, and, uh, you will, you should definitely buy flood insurance if you own this property.

Hamish: Through and through. Yeah, nice little, nice, uh, nice one to bring up there. All right.

Osman: Our very last sale of the week. Peloton. We're going to The Peloton. And The Peloton was constructed in '05 and '06. Uh, I was here at the time, and the pre-sales for this particular development were... The, the marketing was all over the place. First, they would throw in a free scooter, uh, and, and they also, the pitch was buy now before prices go up. Uh, but it turned out to not be the case. People that bought in that pre-sale environment largely overpaid, and, uh, they often sold for huge discounts below that in the years that followed before eventually creeping back up and coming back to what people originally paid for them. And this particular unit, 402, uh, in the original two buildings, so there's a backstory there, but we'll just leave it at the original two buildings- Okay... uh, was an estate sale penthouse con- So it's an estate sale. It's a top-floor condo. Um, it had a $987 a month HOA, and it sold for cash at 1.105. So just over the $1.1 million list price. It's one of the largest units in the complex. And the owners, when they bought it, got it for 11% below list. They bought it in '08, so the market at that point was in free fall. And it dropped even further, by the way, after their acquisition, to the bottom in '09. But they paid

Osman: 758 for it, uh, or 418 a square. And in their 18 years, if you do the math on what this thing, um, how it performed, it got basically 2% a year in appreciation, um, which is, is below the rate of inflation. So- Hmm... you know, The Peloton, from an investment perspective, has not been a great investment at all, and, and I'm not surprised by that, at least for the original owners, even into '08 and '09. It's been a great place to live. I think The Peloton is very solidly built. It has fantastic amenities. I love Basta. It's one of my favorite restaurants in Boulder. Um, and if you need lock and leave, there are not a lot of alternative options that are nice, that aren't, you know- Adult condo... adult condos. Yeah. But, or, uh, you know, one of my clients said, "You know, I'm looking for something that's not infested with students." "And is not run down and beat up and stick frame construction, where I hear my neighbors and everything they do, and is not party central. I would like a place where I can sleep quietly at night, have nice amenities, lock and leave when I don't want to be here. I come in to visit my grandkids, or I work part-time here in Boulder, and I... Or I, I train here in Boulder, and then I go elsewhere for months

Osman: at a time, and I don't want to think about my condo. I want to shut off the water, shut off the power, and know it's fine." And that's The Peloton. I don't know if I would recommend shutting off the power, by the way, because you might have some frozen pipes, because these, these things are really well insulated, but I, I doubt it- Yeah... since you've got the neighbors surrounding you. Um, maybe keep the heat on low, but turn off the water in case there's a water leak. You don't have to flood, uh, the complex. So awesome particular property. This is one of the largest ones, as I mentioned. I went back and looked at my original model, Hamish- Mm-hmm... which I built in 2005, and I last updated in 2012. I was tracking every sale through to 2012. I could easily use AI now to update that model just to see how the different units have performed. Yeah. But until I get another client that's really excited by it, it's not even worth doing that. But it's super... I did go back and look at it, because I was like, "This place is huge." It's 1,800 square feet, two bedroom, two bath- Two bed, yeah. Holy cow... two car reserved garage. I think it's... I mean, for 1.1, there isn't much that compares to it. Uh, the part that sucks is the $987 a month HOA, but-

Osman: Mm-hmm... you do get a lot for that with the amenities at The

Hamish: Peloton. Funny talking about, um, when it was first constructed and, and the sale process for that. Apparently, within the first two weeks or so of opening, and this is from the plumber that worked on Uh, worked on the sewer with us at Kenwood. Uh, he was called to roto-rooter, rooter the main. It blocked up in the first two weeks, flooded, and it was, like, a 12-inch main. And he was like, he had to show the HOA manager because they didn't believe him, but apparently it was all sorts of non-flushable things that had been flushed.

Osman: Sounds like during construction probably, things that were flushed

Hamish: that shouldn't have been flushed. Yeah, I think so. And he kept emphasizing 12-inch main. Doesn't mean a whole lot to me, but- That's huge. I mean, a ty-... it was emphasized so much. Yeah. A

Osman: typical household sewer pipe is four inches, right, a newer one. Like, 12 inches- Mm-hmm... is a big... Although, maybe it wasn't big enough. Maybe they under did it. Yeah. I don't know. I know they're digging- That was part of-... up the whole par- they're digging up the whole parking lot right now because the garage is, like, there's a liner that's- Oh my gosh... leaking into the garage or something. So, uh, you know, properties, even when they're well-constructed, need maintenance, and sometimes there's construction defects, and this property is now 20 years old. Mm-hmm.

Hamish: That was, uh, he was also mentioning the run. Um, for, you know, older homes, apparently it's, like, an eighth-inch run over a certain distance, and newer homes are doing quarter-inch. Ah. And so he was like, "I can't believe it blocked up. It's quarter-inch run in a 12-inch main," and, uh, chattiest plumber we've ever had. But made for a story that can make it to the pod, so here we are. Abso- absolutely. Yeah.

Osman: All right. All right. I think we're ready to talk about the news.

Hamish: Yeah, boy. Um, I think we should still revisit the big brokerages, the Open Real Estate thing, but, um,

Osman: this first one, boy. Go ahead, Hamish. Jump in.

Hamish: Oh. Well, we've had a, a wildfire season here in Boulder. Well, in Colorado. Uh, not so much in Boulder. There's been a couple little grass fires, but, uh, it looks like the City of Boulder has been quietly perhaps analyzing its different neighborhoods, and it's named the 12 highest risk wildfire neighborhoods. Um, there's some hardening aims. Apparently, only 20% of those homes by 2030. Uh, they're also, uh, planning to make, uh, 55% of those homes give them a, a free hardening assessment. Um, so Osman, I mean, you've got the background, I don't know about hardening, but, um, with the wildlife partners and kind of creating a defensible plot for your home, though you're in the mountains, uh, what do you, what's your take on this? And I've got a little bit more, but I don't wanna

Osman: just still- I mean, there's no s- th- this is not like- Yeah... I don't know who, who was paid to do the analysis 'cause none of this is rocket science. Like, literally, it's every neighborhood on the west side of town. So this... The first thing I wanna say is I sure hope we didn't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on this quote, unquote "analysis," uh, just to show us where the WUI is, the wild- uh, the wildland-urban interface. Yeah, thank you. We know, right? Like, everybody knows that this is the highest at-risk neighborhoods. Um, and it's interesting the proposal is just 20%, uh, to meet these hard- hardened home standards r- recognized by insurers by 2030. I think it's good that we're, we're bringing attention to this, and buyers' awareness of it is very shortsighted. So the more that buyers and their agents know about these things, the better, um, because it is very much a big deal. Um, it is a much higher cost to insure, and not just the cost- Mm-hmm... to insure, but living in these areas, it changes your, your kinda comfort zone. Like, w- the moment you realize your home is at risk, your pets are at risk, your, your possessions, your family is at risk because there's a fire in the neighborhood, your, your experience of living in the home

Osman: changes besides the dollars and cents. So- Mm-hmm... the highest risk neighborhoods are Wonderland Hills, Knollwood, Red Rocks, f- uh, Knollwood/Red Rocks, Flagstaff, University Hill, Devil's Thumb, and Chanhassen Ridge. Um, the very high risk is Sanitas, Chautauqua, East Chautauqua, and NCAR, NIST. And then just high risk is Dakota Ridge, North Briar, North Wonderland, and Chanhassen Ridge. And in the Boulder Reporting Lab, they show you the map that city staff-... have created for you, so you can see all the neighborhoods on the west side. Um, I've never heard- It's-... of anybody call... NCAR NIST is not a neighborhood. Right. Right? That's... What is that? So there's some- Highland Park.... new neighborhood designations that are being created, but you can see where that is on, in, in South Boulder. Um- Mm-hmm... and it's good news- Right. Um-... that we're, we're, you know, advising buyers in particular about wildfire risk. And also seller, would-be sellers should know that it's just getting more expensive to insure, um, and that there's gonna be increasing pushes to harden your homes, and the homes that are hardened should sell for a premium. Mm-hmm.

Hamish: I mean, it's helpful you have first-hand experience. Was it this year you had that little fire that you could see from your

Osman: kitchen basically? You know? And- I believe it was... Yeah, I think it was. Yeah. No, I think, was it last October? It w- if, it's just every year- Right... there's something that's gives us a scare.

Hamish: But, you know, you're able to speak first-hand with our clients that watched it, you know, last week, um, and kind of explain the realities of living in a higher fire risk area. Um, I think, you know, more conversations like that are probably a beneficial thing to, to have. It is also, I mean, you said it, right? It's the, it's the WUI. It's the wildlife urban interface, but man, this map is just like, yep, sure enough.

Osman: It's everywhere in the west. But the, the idea- Yeah... is if this proposal passes, you should be able to get a free home assessment. Um, and they're hoping to get 20% hardened, which- Mm-hmm... is kind of not that ambitious, but we'll see. So

Hamish: doesn't this dovetail or kind of blend pretty well with, like, the First, First Street's, like, climate risk assessment deal? You wanna skip to that one? All right. I agree. I think it kind of, it blends, right? All right. So let, let's

Osman: jump to the next news story, which is the Florida Attorney General just announced a lawsuit over First Street's climate risk scores. And I think it was two years ago

Hamish: when First Street- Mm-hmm... partnered with Zillow

Osman: and introduced climate risk scores, and I think Zillow quietly dropped it. I th- I think they eventually- Then it disappeared, yeah. ... removed it, uh, because they realized that it was creating a lot of liability. And for sure, here you go. Uh, the AG in Florida is suing First Street. Um, and it I get it, right? Like, this has, this is, this is, uh, is being described as objective and includes a lot of variables coming up with this climate risk score that are not that objective. So, uh- Mm... by putting a number on it, they're having a huge impact on the market value of people's largest investment asset. So it's not a surprise- Yeah... to s- that, that people believe they've been damaged by this, and it's not a surprise that Florida, which probably leads the country in

Hamish: climate risk- Oh my gosh, yeah... right, like with hurricane risk, I

Osman: would imagine is close to leading the country, is the one suing. And I bet you they won't be the only one to sues First Street on this. Of course- Mm-hmm... of course, Florida's full of climate change deniers, so that's not a surprise either that, you know, the, the states that have climate change deniers in office are also the ones that are, are like- Upset to hear about it ... are more likely to direct their public officials to file lawsuits against this entity that's impacting the largest asset value of what most of the voters have. So- Yeah... no shocker. But the s- the same taker for y- for as a buyer or a seller, whether or not First Street put a number on it doesn't change climate risk. It's still- Mm-hmm... very prevalent, and you should have awareness of it before you buy or sell a house,

Hamish: period, full stop. That's, yeah, that's where I'm at is like it is disclosure of the risks, and I think there kinda ought to be something like that. Maybe calling it climate change, you know, ruffles certain people's feathers. Maybe you call it, you know, natural disaster risk or something like that. Um, but yeah, it's like, do you think Boulder's gonna get sued for publicly saying they've got you know, the wildlife urban interface and these are the riskiest neighborhoods?

Osman: Oh, it may be. Yeah.

Hamish: Like- I mean, for sure. Mm-hmm. There might be,

Osman: there might be individual homeowners that choose to sue. I think that's something that Boulder should consider, um, with that sa- I, you know, there was nothing wrong with setting standards to harden homes and offering free assessments, but naming its 12 highest risk neighborhoods- Yeah ... I mean, you could argue that that damages the value of those neighborhoods. It also happens to be those are some of the highest value neighborhoods in Boulder, so good luck making that argument. Um- Yeah... and I think it would have to be a number of homeowners who band together, and the opposite is happening. These homes- The other side... are really high value. So, um, I don't think there's much risk to the City of Boulder for a lawsuit, but I'm not an attorney, and this is not legal advice. I'm imagining- Or even a legal assessment.

Hamish: Yeah. I'm imagining, like, a satirical listing description, and it's like, "Nestled in the heart of one of Holder- Boulder's highest risk wildlife n- neighborhoods,"

Osman: you know? Wildfire neighborhoods. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Hamish: For sure. Wildfire neighborhoods rests this wonderful sprawling

Osman: ranch, like, you know? Are you ready for 2030? And it's like a house- Yeah... that's like f- exploding in flames. Yeah.

Hamish: Ugh. I mean, it's, uh, it's the WUI, so it's bordering priceless views and the urban wildlife interface. Of course, inherently you'll have the, the natural disaster risk. You'll be at the, the highest threat of that, so. I say natural disaster, but floods, you know, don't care about the WUI. So. All right. Let's, uh, let's just

Osman: touch back on Open Real Estate for a moment. We already talked about it pretty extensively. Uh, this is a new initiative that, uh, Keller Williams, RE/MAX, eXp, Home Services of America, and others have partnered together to provide a counterweight to Compass' private listings. Um, and, uh, they did this with an open letter, "Housing markets must remain open to all," and, uh, it's a battle, as Hamish pointed out, that isn't just Compass versus this group of brokerages, but also includes Zillow, and it's all about data and profit. Uh, it's really- Mm... not about what's best for the consumer, and, uh, this is where I, I personally believe the government needs to get in and regulate, uh, although I'm not really crazy about regulation, but you could see how these large private interest entities are trying to tear it apart for their own benefit, not necessarily for the consumer's benefit. And I guess Open Real Estate's closer to consumer aligned- Mm-hmm... with a desire to partner with the MLSs than Compass or Zillow, but it's still part of the same battle. And the, and the illustration we talked about earlier in this pod was the Vitamin Shoppe founder who cut their price over $40 million once it went from, quote, "private exclusive" or

Osman: pocket listing to actually on the market. And the consumer could've been, I would say, duped into paying tens of millions of dollars more than they needed to when it was in pocket listing status. So, so keep that in mind. There's nothing private or exclusive about most pocket listings. It's they're really shopping for the dumb money. And- Mm-hmm... don't let that be you. Uh, that's really the biggest take home, and whatever steps you need to take to do that, take that, uh, because you otherwise, or go in with eyes wide open that you may be overpaying dramatically, but you're far more likely to overpay than... If your agent tells you you're getting a deal, I would question whether this agent is being honest or not. They should raise their spidey sense. Yeah. I would say, "Show me the data. Show me- Mm... the comps that says I'm getting a deal." Yeah. Because typically you're o- you're overpaying for the exclusive

Hamish: right. Of the two, right, I'd take Open Real Estate's proposed creation. True. Um, apparently there are some other ones that have tried to get started, but I think being that there's kinda four major players banding together to try and create something like this, it's probably got the best chance of it happening. Um, if I remember right, there was, you know, they said for revenue sharing or something, the details hadn't been finalized, but it was anybody who's a member gets, like, revenue from the data or something like that, and it's like, well, good to be vague on that for now,

Osman: you know? And let's see how the dust, you know, shakes out. Right now it looks like a good idea. Mm-hmm. Um, if it, in a few months, if it still looks like a good idea, maybe we'll sign on to it as, uh, you know, as indications of support as our, at our little brokerage. I like it. Um, I- Mm-hmm... it's, I think a step in the right direction, and what made me laugh the most was the CEO of, of, uh, Compass tweeting congratulations to these brokers- Hmm... for creating this, this new competitor. Right.

Hamish: Sometimes I wish the tweets came with like a video of the person while they were writing them, just so you could get- Right

Osman: ... like, you know? Well, I wanna see, you know, what I really wanna see is the stock price movement of Compass shortly after this is announced, 'cause that tells you everything about how this is really impacting Compass, but I'll let you look that up while we move on to the next news story, uh, because we already talked about this one, you know, ad nauseam. We don't need to go into it further. Yeah. Um, residents to Nederland leaders. Mm-hmm. Okay, so Nederland leaders. Um, so-... Nederland's still trying to buy Eldora, and it's quickly being acknowledged, it's widely being acknowledged as maybe not such a great idea. Uh, given the history of municipalities screwing up big purchases and not doing their due diligence and overpaying, in Colorado in particular, in Boulder County, uh, this, this tiny town of Nederland, uh, buying this ski resort at a premium price seems like it's a horrible idea. And the residents are starting to really push back on it at recent town meetings. Um, and w- what's, uh, what, what's fascinating, I think, is this article from, uh, either the Colorado Sun or the Daily Camera, but there's a quote from one of the trustees that, that countered that quitting now would mean flushing that $2.5 million that they've spent- Yeah... down the toilet.

Osman: Um, and which is the very definition of a sunk cost, and here you have a trustee who didn't, Billy Gib- Giblin, who didn't understand sunk costs are sunk costs. You don't get those back e- either way. The question is, should we continue to invest? And given climate change risk and the high price, $120 million do- dollars backed up with a $225 million bond issue with a town of only 1,500 people that currently has a $3 million budget, that's insane. That is- I'm sorry... absolutely

Hamish: insane. That's too big- So-... for your britches thinking.

Osman: Like, you know? It's not just, it's too, it, it's, we, the, a town with a $3 million budget doesn't have the capacity to do the due diligence on $120 million purchase or a $225 million financing it with a bond issue. And let me tell you, the, the consultants, the bankers who advise municipalities are gonna collect fees that are more than the town's budget- Mm-hmm... okay, on the bond issue.

Hamish: Almost certainly. Their fees are what- I mean, that's I think why we're already 1.2 million in acquisition fees, which is

Osman: probably just for the consultants I can't even believe we've already, the town has already spent 1.2 million. Yeah. So it's shocking how much we've spent. And, uh, as a community, I, I don't live in Nederland, but we have clients and friends in Nederland. It's always been a town that is very close to my heart, and I, I, I see Nederland continuing to Aspenize over time, whether or not Nederland owns Eldora. And Nederland potentially could annex around Eldora and control some of the amenitization of Eldora. Mm-hmm. Like, they could do things to- That's a bad idea... to subdivide and build and, you know, nice planned communities up there, nice subdivisions up there, maybe, if that's what- Mm-hmm... the goal is. But to what extent? Like, who are we benefiting in doing that? So I, I, w- while I love the idea of a municipally-owned ski area- Yeah ... I hate the idea of sticking the town of Nederland with 225 million in debt to fund this thing that may just be a total money loser for the future. Yeah.

Hamish: We, you know, we don't know the due diligence that has been done. Um, but we know that it was a terrible ski year last year, and the tea leaves don't show much better. So it's just a, I mean, it, it felt like a long shot then. You know? And that was before I knew that the budget for Eldora, or for Nederland was $3 million a year, you know? And the, this acquisition cost and everything. So Louisville, city of Louisville listened to their constituents and scrapped the idea to buy, I think it was a $12 or $13 million building this year they did that. So th- it's possible, uh, that Eldora will, or Nederland, sorry, uh, will listen, uh, to the, to especially Dallas Masters, who's doing a lot of work, I think, um, leading the resistance, so.

Osman: Yeah. We'll see. And the, and the website el- eldorarecord.org is, uh, Dallas Masters' website- Hmm... uh, who compiled 50,000 pages of records into a public site.

Hamish: Um- Oh, awesome... 100%,

Osman: I, I'm now s- after watching this unfold, I'm very much, uh, against it, and I don't think that the town has done their due diligence, nor do they have the operational expertise to, uh, to run a ski resort. Um, so this is just like the city of Boulder should not have been trying to build a municipal utility, and eventually capitulated on that entire process. What was that utility? Uh, that was, oh, so this is the Xcel franchise agreement. Oh, yeah. Oh. And for y- this is before your time, Hamish. The city of Boulder- Yeah... spent tens of millions of dollars, uh, w- in lawsuits with Xcel and fighting Xcel and threatening to create a municipal utility, and it would've only increased the cost of electric for the city of Boulder because we have no production, right? Mm-hmm. Unlike other areas like-... Longmont has production, other communities have production. We have no production. All we would've been doing was buying electricity on the spot market, and we don't have the expertise to, to run a municipality. Yeah. And in the event of a weather event, a major weather event, we don't have the, the, the enormous resources to bring power back online. So it's so crazy to think that Boulder was so excited to have a municipal utility, and here we have Eldora so excited,

Osman: or the trustees, so excited to operate a ski area. Uh, and to whose benefit? Like, do you think the town, townspeople that are paying property taxes are gonna benefit from- This ski resort, I, I, I not n- I don't... I think this is a bailout for the owners of Eldora. And the, and the owner, why else would they stay in this discussion with them months after the deadlines have expired?

Hamish: Yeah. Right? Like,

Osman: this deal should have been terminated months ago. It's still in discussion. Why? Because we're the, because, because, uh, Nederland is the dumb money in the deal. That's why. Super. Mm-hmm. They're hoping that Nederland figures out how to buy it and gets the state to write a check. Um, and hopefully we are not that dumb, but we will see. Hopefully not. The, um,

Hamish: that utility, Boulder Power company thing is crazy. Uh, can you imagine, you know, if the Marshall fire happened while Boulder was managing the infrastructure? Does Boulder have the funds to pay out? Like, what was it, half a billion in damages from Xcel?

Osman: Ah, thank God. Oh. Thank God we did not buy, uh, did, did not create- Yeah... a municipal utility. Um, and I really, I feel like I really want government to work on things that solve issues for people. You know? Mm-hmm. The one thing I... Say what you will about Mamdani, and maybe it's mostly marketing, but boy, he really emphasizes making life better for the citizens of his city. Mm-hmm. Potholes, right? Yes, yes. Like, enclosed trash... The city's never had enclosed trash. Yeah. My God, the city's existed for 200 years and has never... I don't even know how many years the city of, of New York has been there, but I was shocked to see these really large, on the street, enclosed trash containers. What does that do? It keeps the rats from entering the trash bags. Like, the rats are protesting what, what Mamdani's doing. But the city is really excited by him. He's got a wildly popular rating with- Yeah... everybody in the city, and I, I feel like government, local government needs to focus on local issues that affect quality of life

Hamish: and not- Mm... not try to do these cr- These pipe

Osman: dreams come to mind. Like, yeah. Pay twice as much for a commercial development than any reasonable person would pay. Any reasonable investor or developer would pay for Alpine Balsam. Like, how much money- Mm-hmm ... are we gonna flush good after bad in these, these pipe dream ideas? Like, there's a reason that... Government's good at certain things. They're not good at running a ski area. I- Yeah... there's zero chance of them doing better.

Hamish: So let's- That one powder was supposed to stay on and stuff, but I mean st- it's just well over Nederland's even capability.

Osman: Nope. You know? Get out. Get out fast. Um,

Hamish: yeah, I lost it. I think we're good. We're, we can't go too much old man yells at cloud, uh, here on the pod. But that about... Oh, dude, it's carve-outs.

Osman: It's time for carve-outs. It's time- It's time for carve-outs... to, you, you, you've reached the final. You've waited for this moment where we get to talk about anything we wanna talk about. Mm-hmm. And Hamish is gonna be talking about a zoo,

Hamish: so let's hear about it. Yeah. Didn't buy a zoo, but a zoo moved in. Uh, as of today, uh, the human occupants of this household are now outnumbered by the four-legged oc- occupants. So there are now three cats and one dog in this house. Uh, my roommate has completely moved in at this point. She has a dog and two cats. Um, she flew out to Baltimore to pick up the cats and came back late last night. Um, longtime listeners of the podcast, um, Andrew, I know you're listening, and you love cats. Uh, you guys know, you guys all know Mr. Balls. He's a intact male cat that I rescued, and, uh, just a little bit of a sweetheart. Well, he got to meet the two new feline occupants of the household this morning, uh, probably about 45 minutes before we started recording the podos. And, um, so far so good. Uh, when he first met the dog, Camden, uh, he gave a, gave a hiss to the dog, and the dog kept its, you know, it went back to COVID rules. It was keeping a six-foot distance from Mr. Balls at all times. Um, and a similar kind of thing with the cats. Um, Balls is, I think it's friendliness. You know, I've had the cat for a while. I think I can read his body language, but you know cats. Um, Balls just wants to, like, get to know these kitties. Like, he's,

Hamish: he's up on them. He's trying to sniff them. He's trying to, like, uh, just be with them, and these cats are like, they just had an eight-hour flight. They're drugged up. They're tired. They're stressed. And they're just like, "Leave me

Osman: alone." Are they female

Hamish: or male? One male, one female. Uh, both of them neutered and spayed. Um, one, the female's, like, 14 years old, apparently a bit of a diva to begin with, um, and then Calzone, the male, he's a big boy. Uh, you see him walking towards you, you go, "Oh, Lord, he coming, the rotund man." Um, he's, he's a big dude. Are you saying you've got a fat cat? I got a fat cat, dude. I'll get you a picture of it. Uh- All right... he's, like, boy. But, um, very promising start, and, uh, yeah, we'll see how things work out. I'd love for Mr. Balls to have some more friends, but, um, it's definitely a little bit like, oh, boy, three cats? Never thought I'd, uh, see the day. So we'll see how it turns out. He's, uh, he came in the office not too long ago, just Mr. Balls, um, and he's hanging out up here, so either he got swatted and he's like, "Dang, I gotta lay low for a little bit," or, uh, he's over the introductions. But, um, that's my carve-out. The Mac one would've been more interesting, but we can, uh, revisit that.

Osman: Hold on. I wanna see pictures of all these, uh, the menagerie of animals that you now have-... at your home.

Hamish: Um- Oh, um, the We Bought a Zoo thing, Matt

Osman: Damon, um,

Hamish: starred in it. It's a pretty fun movie. I think he's like, you know, wants to get away and just finds a zoo for super cheap, and it consumes his life, and it's a feel-good movie. But, um, it kinda feels like that 'cause it's just, like, another animal, another animal, and, um, now we're outnumbered, so if we go missing... Fun. It was, it was the cats. Yeah. All right, my carve-out

Osman: is I just got back from Sedona, Arizona, where I was at a family wedding, and it was ... I don't know what it is about weddings. Something has changed in my biology. I actually get very teary at weddings. Hmm. There's something... And I never used to feel that way, but now I'm like, "Oh, that's so poetic and so poignant seeing these families come together and these vows exchanged." And it was an outdoor wedding, and the storms were all around us, but held off- Oh, cool... and they had the whole experience. I mean, I think the bridesmaids were very cold. Um, the brides, uh, the, the grooms were seemed... Uh, sorry. The groomsmen seemed pretty comfortable, especially the, the Siberian husky who had his little tux on. Oh, you're kidding. Uh, and it was really cute, and it was really fun, and we were in Sedona for a few days hanging out with, uh, mostly Leah's side of the family and went for some hikes. And the one thing I wanna mention is, boy, we are so lucky in Boulder, and I forget how lucky we are because I would think, you know... So we, we plan to go for a hike, and so we go to this hike. It is just littered with cars all over the roads at this popular hike called Devil's Bridge, and then we go on this hike, and it's a real gentle and easy hike, but it's packed with people

Osman: everywhere talking. Some people are like they got their radios going while they're on the trail. I hate that. Pet peeve. And I'm like, "Okay, people, what are you doing?" And then we get to where the popular part of the trail is. It gets very narrow, um, like the sections of Sunitis that are narrow and steep, too. So it's similar to that, but there's so many people that it's backed up, and there's people that are probably not the most fit and have the best balance, and they're struggling, so they're, you know, they're walking down

Hamish: carefully. Uh- Mm-hmm... one woman was,

Osman: like, coming down. This can be scary. She's, like, sitting her butt down on every step- Oh, yeah... and going down- That scoots... on all, like, scooching down. But eventually we get up to the Devil's Bridge, and there's, like, 200 people up there, and there's a line to get on the bridge to take a photo, to have somebody take your photo on the bridge, and it looked like... So we just sat there and watched this unfold for, like, 20 minutes, like I'm not gonna go stand in line to get a photo of me on a, on a natural bridge. Like, this doesn't make any sense. Mm-hmm. Uh, but I couldn't believe how many people were waiting, and I bet you they were waiting an hour and a half to two hours to get onto that bridge, and eventually we went back down and, and finished our hike, and, uh, then we went to brunch, and while we were at brunch, we were talking to the, to the waiter, and he told us that the... Five people on average die on that bridge every year because they, they get dizzy. They go for a selfie, they get dizzy, and then they fall off. I was like, "Are you ki- Really? Five, five people a year die on that?" Like, it was the craziest experience. Yeah. I don't know if that's true or not. I didn't ask AI to look it up. I didn't verify any of that.

Osman: I... This person said it with authority, so I'm gonna take it, uh, with a, with, with a, a grain of salt. Yeah. But I would think that if five people die every year, there would be some warning signs at least, and I didn't see any warning signs. Shepherdess required or... Yeah. But I didn't walk all the way to where the line was. Um, but it was really interesting 'cause we were watching some people yell at their family members to not get too close and all the different languages. It was really kinda wild. It was fun. I'm glad to see so much diversity, but I'm also so- Yeah... glad that we don't have trails like that or that, like, we don't have this crazy overcrowding happening on most trails. I mean- Yeah... Sunitis can get a little crazy in the summer, but I've never seen it like that. That was truly something, so a fun trip, beautiful rock formations. I was not consumed by an energy vortex. I did not see past lives. But I had a fun time, and it was a great wedding, and now I'm, I'm glad to be back home in our fair city.

Hamish: That, um, friend that I have in Arizona I was telling you about, uh, could probably corroborate your, like, five people die on average per year. Like, I'll, I'll jump on a call with him or something, and he's like, "Oh, yeah, like, another tourist c- went up into the mountains completely unprepared and died of heat stroke," and I'm just like, "Dude, how is it?" I mean, we get the occasional, um, properly tragic story here, um, but I feel like we do a lot better, um, just a- as far as general safety goes on, on hikes, and Chautauqua and Sunitis, I think, are the two ones that'll probably get clogged up like that, and then, like, the Instagram locations like Hanging Lake or Maroon Bells maybe.

Osman: I mean, we lose some people on the Flatirons, like the second Flatiron in particular- Yeah... has a section that, that people get in over their heads, and every couple of years there's somebody that falls. Mm-hmm. Um, so we do lose people, but it's not this, like, conga line and two-hour wait for a selfie. That's the part- Yeah... that really blew my mind. And yeah, being in the outdoors is dangerous, and, uh, even throughout Colorado, we just lost two college students that were caught, you know, in a storm in the

Hamish: mountains. You have that tab open to read it. Yeah.

Osman: So 100% it, it, it can kill you out here, so be careful, but, uh, it wasn't this, this scene of selfie-a- selfies. Yeah. Well, all right. Clown world. Yeah. With that said, I think it's time to wrap up this podcast. If you made it this far, thank you so much for joining us. We deeply appreciate your comments and your feedback, and of course, when you send us referrals or you reach out to us at the brokerage to represent you, we always appreciate the opportunity to be of service to you. If you like the content that you heard or watched today, be sure to check out our social media. You can find us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, X, BlueSky, LinkedIn, TikTok. You'll also find my personal socials out there as well. If you'd like more information or would like to sign up for our newsletter, you can do so at houseeinstein.com. Hamish, any last words?

Hamish: Thanks for listening, and uh,

Osman: catch you next time. Boom. We'll see you later.

Hamish: Okay. Yeah. All right. That's all. No, that ooh can be the teaser. All right. Till next time. Next time. Sweet.